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Nikon are you crazy? (re: Nikon 1 V3)

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Evan614, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. Evan614

    Evan614 Mu-43 Regular

    May 6, 2014
  2. xdayv

    xdayv Color Blind

    Aug 26, 2011
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    I've been a Nikon user for some time now, sometimes I don't understand their strategy. They were a bit late in the mirrorless game, while I'm not a big fan of their sensor size decision, they have done well in the AF for the Nikon 1, and the AW1 is something I look forward too for special applications. The V3 price seems a bit high maybe because of the shortage of supply according to them?

  3. randyspan

    randyspan Mu-43 Veteran

    May 24, 2014
    New Hampshire, USA
    Randy Spann
    - I have a Nikon V1. Shame, cause the technology is real good. But the sensor size, lack of controls, and high price make it a real oddity!
  4. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    If you shoot in good light, the Nikon 1 system probably has the best AF of all mirrorless cameras. Unfortunately I just don't find the sensor performance all that good, and M43 has a better balance of sensor/lens sizing. I'm saying this after trying to go all in with the Nikon 1 awhile back since I'm a very diehard Nikon fan.
    • Like Like x 2
  5. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    I think it is a good choice if you need what it does best. But on an allrounder-per-dollar basis, it struggles. I just don't think that is its target market, though, so maybe it is harsh to judge by that yardstick.
  6. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    All of the Nikon 1s are pricey when they first come out. And I do agree that this one in particular is high. However it has some features that can't be had anyplace else. The strategy must be working for them because Nikon just announced that their factory can't keep up with the demand!


    I can tell you that I am very tempted to get one, once the price does come down or I find a good used one that is.

    Here is an interesting video showing one of things the V3 can do.
  7. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    Daytime continuous AF is the Nikon 1's major strength. It's the one thing it beats all other mirrorless cameras at. I tried a Nikon V2 & 32mm 1.2 and man that setup is pretty sweet, but prices are really steep what amounts to a small sensor camera.
  8. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    The NIkon 1s do video pretty well and it is the only system with a proper lens for it. The 10-100mm power zoom is what you need for general video shooting but nobody else has released a lens like it. I keep hoping and waiting for a similar lens for m4/3 but so far nothing. Which I find really strange considering that there are several pro m4/3 video bodies and multiple prosumer ones but no lens. There are a couple of power zoom lenses but none that have a full focal range. For event video, switching lenses is not really an option but zooming is!
  9. alex66

    alex66 Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 23, 2010
    I have wondered if one of the Nikon 1 series with one of the primes would make a good street cam with the very fast AF, I must admit it is a tempting camera with the 50mm equivalent for a small fast street/urban camera.
  10. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    While the video did a good job to highlight the "good" features of the V3, it was obvious that some of the shots were lacking sharpness.

    I had a good chuckle at about 2:30s in where he talks about the max aperture of the 70-300 being f/4.5, and you can "shoot in low light". That's about 1.5 stops above lenses that serious motorsports photographers use (70-200 f/2.8, or 300 f/2.8), and for evening shots they use every bit of that 2.8 aperture. Try shooting something as fast as an F1 car at night with a lens set to f/4.5, and let me know how good those shots turn out for you.

    I almost feel bad watching this video, because you're gonna get some poor sucker out there who watches this video and thinks he's gonna be able to grab shots like those seen in the video with his Nikon 1 V3 and 70-300 (which he just paid over $2k for), and he's gonna be sadly disappointed when he sees the results. I also question where all the shots seen in that video were taken with a Nikon 1 series camera, or if some (most) of the shots were taken with something like a Nikon D4, something much more suited to shooting Forumla 1 cars.
  11. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    Nikon hates the 1 series. I say this because I actively come from a Nikon background. Read Thom Hogan's stuff and he'll pretty much conclude that Nikon doesn't have a clue what they're doing. The V3 is like their attempt to keep the primary strength of the 1 series (Good AF) but then they kind of just threw their arms up into the air and flailed, by bumping the sensor resolution ("For magnification") but really this was like a stealth move to attract the same D800E "Medium Format is Obsolete, all hail the full frame master race" crowd ("No AA filter" marketing checkbox ticked.) You can thank internal politics at Nikon for this, they suddenly don't want anything to compete against anything internally. No D700 with a grip that allows you to have a blazing 8fps. You just get a Df ("D600 with a D4 sensor") instead with extra hipster appeal (Its a horrible callback to the F series, Fuji made a better F# body by making a X-T1 if that says anything)

    Now you get a V3 that has noise at low ISO (And detail obliterating if you try to bump it up. Just like my D200, not helping when you're already using a high MP sensor that's more demanding than a D800 or m43 sensor due to pixel density...), doesn't handle higher ISOs well (Enjoy that f/5.6 telephoto stopped down to f/8 to try to gain back any sharpness.) "Oh but it has high FPS and great AF." So does the Sony A6000, sure it doesn't do 20 fps but it actually does something that Sony traditionally can't nail: It actually works great as a camera overall. If you want to bring up a lack of lenses: They both lack a complete line of lenses, too.

    Oh and the kicker? MicroSD cards. None of your SD cards will work. Good luck putting those in an adapter and loading it into your other Nikon DSLRs that use SD cards. Or the m43 body you own alongside Nikon DSLRs. Or Canon DSLRs. Or anything else. It wasn't like space was a luxury on the body design either, they just needed something to sabotage it more as a camera.

    The 1 series never really got a fair start over at Nikon, internal politics has been making the pro bodies and 1 series fight their way to make anything happen. Time to get Ren Kockwell to shill another D810/D#300 out. "You don't need skill or competence, just slap on another 18-### on there and you're set. Screw the people that want a D400 or a D4X, they're idiots that overpay for something they never would need, especially if they're professionals."

    Oh and Nikon just doesn't hate the 1 series. They hate Nikon shooters as well, case in point: 58G. A $1,70 USD toy lens. Ugh...
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Halaking

    Halaking Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 17, 2012
    Los Angeles
    Maybe Nikon should use Sony RX10/RX100's sensor, that will be nice combo!
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    Kinda makes me scratch my head to what Nikon was thinking when they had the most impressive underdog comeback with the D3X/D3/D700/D300 and the slew of great lenses they released around the same time. You think they'd keep that momentum going, but instead sort of just pissed it away. While I still shoot Nikon with my DSLRs, I'm not all that excited with their cameras anymore. Oh well, they're more interesting than Canon which almost seems like they've near given up! :eek: 
  14. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    Honestly, when the V3 was introduced, and it became clear that there was little if any sensor improvement, I set about getting a V2 - but it's interesting how effectively Nikon managed V2 supply, so that there was never any fire sale on it - at least here in the U.S. But, in Canada, they were unable to hold the fort on the price, so you had a situation where in Canada, V2 kits were selling for $400-450 USD, while in the U.S., the kits never dropped below $800.

    So I got a V2 kit for $410 all in from Henry's in the Toronto area. Once I sold off the kit zoom, which I had no desire for, I ended up spending $350 for my V2 - and at that price, it's a great specialized camera where fast tracking AF is needed, and it also serves as a great teleconverter for long Nikkor lenses. But I would not have bought my V2 for $750-800 for the body, but at half that price, it's a great special purpose tool. As for the V3, they lost me when they de-integrated the EVF and went to MicroSD cards. Even if the body cost $600, I'd still rather have my V2 that cost me $350.
  15. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    The D3(s)/X/D300/D700 triple threat was the finest thing Nikon had going for them. Now they're flailing their arms hopelessly wondering why people are mad about the D600 shutter issues... This is the same stupid tactic of appealing to the very, very low. They did this before with the D40 and as horrible as it was in its time, it doesn't match the amount of sheer stupidity they're pulling off now. That is on top of their current tactic of "get back in your concentration camp, APS-C user. We only accept D600 users at minimal for our glorious sensorkind" by ignoring the APS-C lens market. Even Canon is doing better, they've put out more STM lenses and they're actually pretty nice lenses.

    Oh, right: Coolpix A. Not a RX100, not even the silly of the RX1. High priced and nothing to show for it either.

    That's too logical for the current Nikon. You'll just get a D820* or D9300 (Please no) if you ask hard enough. The D820 will spray fine black powder over the sensor while it has issues with everything but the center AF. The D9300 will refuse to work with any Sigma or Tamron lens or even D type Nikkor lenses. It'll also have an impressive 3fps and no AA filter. Oh but enjoy having a crippled AF system as well...

    Also they will take a classic lens (Ex: Nikkor 50mm f/1.2) and then utterly ruin its reputation by making a G reincarnation. It'll be excessively overpriced, underperforming and practically a toy lens. Those will be released alongside those hypothetical future bodies. They'll do this while sacrificing some people from the cult of the D400 by killing their souls slowly and in agonizing pain, via the D9300.

    And people wonder why Thom seems so obtuse and crazy. He has good reason: He's The Nikon Pro (Even if NPS doesn't do a damn for him), when people think Nikon and some prolific guy that isn't just about excellent shots or their attitude on photography, they look at Thom and wonder what the hell is wrong with him. Nothing's wrong with Thom, he's just been using Nikon for far too long and his criticisms are usually spot on.

    ...Speaking of Thom:
    *The D810 isn't even worthy of being considered a D810 under classical Nikon naming convention, at best its a D800Es or something. But they had to ruin the parallel naming convention they had going along with Canon by mucking up the model numbers and introducing the D#000 naming.

    < /Demented Nikon owner rant>
  16. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    Here's a list of annoyances since the D3/D700/D300 generation:

    D4 - XQD slot and CF slot. Why not dual XQD or just dual CF slots? Why not trickle XQD down the line? Having only 1 camera use it sure really doesn't give the end user confidence in it's longevity. Even Canon caved in and went dual CF. Having two different card formats in a flagship camera is annoying.

    D800/E - Left focus issue, greenish LCD (My D800 LCD is just terrible versus my D3/D700/D300 LCD). I can't even gauge the images correctly.

    Df - Sure looks cool, but lots of weird compromises doesn't make it a true D700 replacement. Great D4 sensor, but weaker D600 AF. Not full mag alloy (front plastic), but just as expensive as a D800. No grip option so pros who want a small'ish D4 have a modular option. 1 card slot and in the battery compartment...it's understandable in my tiny E-M10, but the Df is huge and they surely could of build the SD slot in the side.

    D600 - Sensor spray and blaming the issue on the user.

    Nikon 1 - The execution just seems all out of whack and that doesn't even take into account the smallish sensor. Nikon V1 - No flash, no mode dial, but awesome D800/D7100 battery. Nikon V2 - Mode dial, pop-up flash, but no more D800/D600/D7100 battery compatibility. Nikon V3 - No more integrated EVF, Micro SD cards...WTF?

    On the plus side, the proliferation of affordable FX lenses are worth noting. The new 18-35/24-85/35/50/85 are all top notch...well except the 28mm 1.8 which I consider junk! But then again Sigma's 35mm 1.4 and 50mm 1.4 are more affordable than Nikon's top primes and sharper than all of them combined!
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    Some of my gripes: (Bet you these sound familiar and they'll sound really familiar if you follow Thom's suffering)

    Everything after the D3/D300/D700 generation - Controls all moved around, no battery compatibility
    XQD - Deaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad on arrival, should of stuck with CF or even double/quad SD (Split writes across the cards)
    D4s - Purple haze at high ISO, not a real improvement. Not a D3s "leaps and bounds" thing
    D800 - Repeating the same mistake as catering to the D200 crowd instead of the "D400" crowd (Mostly D300 owners). Not as durable as a D700 against physical damage.
    D800E - Stupid decision in marketing led them to removing the AA filter pointlessly in other sensors as a marketing choice giving you more UNDEFEATABLE MOIRE
    D610 - D610 exists, not a fix to the D600.
    D600 - D600 exists, not a proper D700 successor. Everything about it is wrong (See: 58G) and the execution is worse.
    D700s - Doesn't exist, this is already so very wrong.
    "D700 Successor" - Doesn't exist, this even more wrong.
    Df - Poor digital F. The Fuji X-T1 does better because it isn't a D600/610 body with a D4 sensor packed into an incredibly eye hurting package. Not a D700 successor.
    APS-C - Ignored into oblivion. Worst case scenario we get a D9300. Alternatively Nikon's APS-C line can die without dignity in a painful and ugly manner.
    1 (Gen 1) - Not caring about it, menus are unrelatable, no Speedlight compat or adapter.
    1 (Gen 2) - Making the V2 really ugly and alien, still haven't fixed menus or lack of Speedlight compat. Battery compat...
    1 (Gen 3) - Cheap knockoff of all the other mirrorless cameras in terms of features: E-M1/5 grip. GX1/7 appearance/styling (Not directly, but in that vaguely high performance soap bar format). Did not attempt to copy those in a competent way. Pointless switch to microSD.

    24-70 f/2.8 - No real improvements. Not competing against Tamron's lens stabilization.
    85 f/1.4G - Not better than the 85 1.4D. significantly more costly, slower when AF hunts
    85 f/1.8G - Not better than the 85 1.8D, significantly more costly, slower when AF hunts
    50 f/1.4G - Not better than the 50 1.4D, significantly more costly, does not sharpen up as well, slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww AF
    50 f/1.8G - I don't have enough complaints about it so it gets off lucky, except that special edition thing they released with the Df which is a horrible, horrible attempt at a callback, slower AF but not like terribly bad as the 50 1.4G
    58G - Everything about it is wrong. Everything wrong about it shows what's happened to Nikon and how Nikkor is dead as a lens line after what they've been doing.
    35 f/1.4G FX - All the cost, not performing up against Sigma's 35mm.
    35 f/1.8G DX - Underperforming, at this point I'd buy a Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8A---... Oh, I own one.
    18-300VR DX (f/6.3) - Same mistake as the D200+18-200VR but somehow worse. Blantantly targeted towards the Ren Kockwell reader.
    Current G lens releases - Somehow they feel more plasticy than my Sigma 18-35 f/1.4A which has a composite barrel. All while having more metal. Not that they're necessarily beter built than their D counterparts either, if anything they're actually much less tanky in build.

    That's just some of my complaints. Some. Thom probably has a much more complete list, but with a little more obtuseness with something about a modular, programmable, communicating and social camera as his answer to Nikon's problems.

    And some of these things are the reason I am really hoping for an autofocusing Metabones adapter for EOS -> m43. The D3s will probably be the last Nikon body I will ever own at this rate. It'll be a good day when I get a second hand one at this point...
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