NIKON accused of Sexism in

[hazwing]

This thread has gone of in tangents, with people bring up excuses or issues different to the one in the OP.

I find it difficult to believe that it is so hard to have at least a few women in a panel of 32 nikon ambassors.
"picking the right person for the job" - I'm sure there are many accomplished female photographers who would suit the role perfectly fine.
"reverse discrimation" - not sure what this has to do with the OP. There is no reverse discrimination here. Just female discrimination.
"there are no x minorities either" - that doesn't make it any more right that there are no women. Besides ~50% of the population are women, they are hardly a minority.
"women were asked and declined the offer" - How many were asked? Probably a lot less than the male photographers. Surely it can't be that hard to find at lease one female photographer that would fit the bill? I feel they're not trying hard enough if they couldn't get at least one or two.
"it's mainly men who are the target market" - Once again I find it hard to believe there are no women who shoot nikon or would be interested in the d850. An even if there were female ambassadors, as a male, I can still appreciate their work and the camera they use to produce that work. Seeing some female faces on the 32 panel, wouldn't make me want to buy the camera any less


Anyway this thread is getting awefully political. I expect Amin to shut it down any time now

 

[DanS]

The paper I cited stated that once all variables had been accounted for that a wage gap still existed. And the video that you shared drew the same conclusion.

Yes, a much smaller one than is commonly referenced. It also discussed several reasons why it exists, but you seemed to have glazed over them.

 

[DanS]

@DanS I'm still waiting for your thoughts on these:

I already addressed that when i linked to some of your photos and asked two questions! I said people at times make questionable decisions that they might not make given hindsight. Those types of targeted adds are everywhere today, go pick up a magazine geared towards women and you will see the same thing in reverse.

 

[DanS]

"picking the right person for the job" - I'm sure there are many accomplished female photographers who would suit the role perfectly fine.

this is a rather simplistic view, as the right person most likely needs more qualifications than just being an accomplished photographer.

For example:

1. Are they willing to take the compensation that is being offered.
   
2. Are they available at the time the campaign/tour is going to occur.
3. Are they willing to travel to the part of the world the campaign will occur in.
4. Are they comfortable talking in front of large groups of people.
5. Are they fluent in the language spoken there, or willing to work with a translator to span the communication gap.
6. Is their specially inline with the marketing campaign

I'm sure more qualifications than I can think of exist as well.

 

[NoSeconds]

From your country:

"In fact women in their twenties working full-time in 2003 could expect to take home around 8% less in weekly wages than their male counterparts. By 2013, this had increased to just over 15%.

The important point is that gender pay gaps are real and haven’t really made any huge ground over time. Some of the gap can be explained by differences in how men and women work, their education and experience.

If we can explain these differences, then this is really useful because we can then address it. But, numerous studies show that once we do account for all the possible drivers of the gender pay gap we are left with a large portion we just can’t explain."

SOURCE: Will the real gender pay gap please stand up?

When I was an apprentice, there was a girl in my intake who was paid the same as me (if not more) despite refusing to do most of the difficult or dirty jobs.

I haven't met a single female yet who does the exact same job as a male counterpart and gets paid differently. It was the same in the Army, the Mines and the public service... Comparing average wages is just PC nonsense, of course the airconditioned inner city office drone is going to be paid less than a field service technician working in the remote outback...

 

[Hypilein]

There certainly is a problem with the gender pay gap. When people shout about the big numbers and when confronted say: "oh but studies evidence there is still a tiny bit left unexplained, but no one knows why" that just makes people feel as if they are being lied to. It does not help the feminist cause at all!

In Germany (and I'm sure in most other western countries) paying your female workers less for the same work is illegal. If you feel, that you are paid less for the same job because of gender/race then feel free to take your employer to court, although I concede that this takes some courage (or balls, dare I say it).

 

[PakkyT]

I haven't met a single female yet who does the exact same job as a male counterpart and gets paid differently.

You survey every female you meet about what they are paid then do the same for a male counterpart doing the same job? That must be exhausting.

 

[NoSeconds]

You survey every female you meet about what they are paid then do the same for a male counterpart doing the same job? That must be exhausting.

That's the best you can come up with...? Surely a few minutes on SAP isn't nearly as exhaustive as harassing carbon positive third-worlder's on every continent about their concern over global warming and how it affects women's right to earn more than men for less work...?

 

[NoSeconds]

How many surveys have you completed in Bangladesh for example, Colombia, or maybe Indonesia?

Roughly one per evening at 18:00 (dinner time) for the last 14 years...

 

[NoSeconds]

Yes, a much smaller one than is commonly referenced. It also discussed several reasons why it exists, but you seemed to have glazed over them.

It's probably really there to offset all the extra work done by fifth columnists who push the feminist barrow for free...?

Still no idea what Nikon and Global Climate Warming Change has to do with gender based pay disputes and u4/3...?

 

[hazwing]

this is a rather simplistic view, as the right person most likely needs more qualifications than just being an accomplished photographer.

For example:

1. Are they willing to take the compensation that is being offered.
   
2. Are they available at the time the campaign/tour is going to occur.
3. Are they willing to travel to the part of the world the campaign will occur in.
4. Are they comfortable talking in front of large groups of people.
5. Are they fluent in the language spoken there, or willing to work with a translator to span the communication gap.
6. Is their specially inline with the marketing campaign

I'm sure more qualifications than I can think of exist as well.

Yes all these are relevant qualities. Many of those qualities are not gender specific... is it so hard to find a female photographer that also fulfill those qualities? Once again, I believe Nikon is just not trying hard enough.

 

[Clint]

this is a rather simplistic view, as the right person most likely needs more qualifications than just being an accomplished photographer.

For example:

1. Are they willing to take the compensation that is being offered.
   
2. Are they available at the time the campaign/tour is going to occur.
3. Are they willing to travel to the part of the world the campaign will occur in.
4. Are they comfortable talking in front of large groups of people.
5. Are they fluent in the language spoken there, or willing to work with a translator to span the communication gap.
6. Is their specially inline with the marketing campaign

I'm sure more qualifications than I can think of exist as well.

1st Qualification
Be a Nikon Ambassador from Asia, Middle East and Africa. For the Middle East and Africa I do not believe there is a female Nikon Ambassador.

And then add @DanS's list. Now how many female Nikon Ambassadors that does leave left?

 

[Clint]

You still don't run an ad campaign with that all-testosterone dynamic.

That's a great, big F-A-I-L

There is no agenda.

Nikon should have adjusted their ad campaign. Now it is all over the media in a very negative bruising of the Nikon brand. It is a terrible business practice.

Don't go into marketing, you'll never survive.

 

[NCV]

Via the Guardian I visited the actual Nikon page in question. http://www.nikon-asia.com/en_Asia/l...Section=d850-photographers/asia&Page+Size=100

One thing that struck me was the rather limited and perhaps atypical choice of representation of photographers from the huge continent of Africa.

Only the lack of women seems to have aroused the social justice warriors into internet "noise" creation.

 

[piggsy]

Only the lack of women seems to aroused the social justice warriors into internet "noise" creation.

Thanks on bringing up this very sincerely argued point! Unlike those bothersome women, this other issue is definitely one for which nobody has pretty much the exact same "they should hire the best wh- I mean uh, ma- I mean uh, person for the job!" prepared. I think what's great about it, other than its sincerity, is that it does not at all resemble the same "cheap and obvious distraction" issues as literally every other thing that has been brought up to avoid talking about the actual subject of discussion. The problem with that was, there is really nothing indicative of such a epic and humiliating defeat as to have to cede the ground of the argument entirely and pick something - please - anything else, to avoid the utter shame and embarrassment of it all.

Still I look forward to your open letter on the subject and I'm sure that the response will be very different. I mean, eventually you just had to feel a low kind of pity for the guys taking the sexist line on the last open letter - people so entrenched in their own mediocrity that even just a few of these apparently unintellectual, overly emotional, physically and mentally weak women being allowed into a professional promotion would spell doom for their prospects.

 

[NoSeconds]

Thanks on bringing up this very sincerely argued point! Unlike those bothersome women, this other issue is definitely one for which nobody has pretty much the exact same "they should hire the best wh- I mean uh, ma- I mean uh, person for the job!" prepared. I think what's great about it, other than its sincerity, is that it does not at all resemble the same "cheap and obvious distraction" issues as literally every other thing that has been brought up to avoid talking about the actual subject of discussion. The problem with that was, there is really nothing indicative of such a epic and humiliating defeat as to have to cede the ground of the argument entirely and pick something - please - anything else, to avoid the utter shame and embarrassment of it all.

Still I look forward to your open letter on the subject and I'm sure that the response will be very different. I mean, eventually you just had to feel a low kind of pity for the guys taking the sexist line on the last open letter - people so entrenched in their own mediocrity that even just a few of these apparently unintellectual, overly emotional, physically and mentally weak women being allowed into a professional promotion would spell doom for their prospects.

Piggsy, are you female...?

If not, why do you hate males so much...?

Looking forward to your open letter of explanation...

 

[NoSeconds]

I spent my Day at the World Economic Forums Sustainable Development Impact Summit where we heard from Al Gore, Jerry Brown, Prime Ministers, Presidents, Mayors, and Vet's talk about climate change, gender equality, and public-private partnerships. It was inspiring! View attachment 574074 View attachment 574075 View attachment 574076 View attachment 574077

Seems like you were lucky to make it out alive... being in a room with that many oxygen thieves must have been touch and go!

 

[DanS]

this other issue is definitely one for which nobody has pretty much the exact same

huh?

 

[piggsy]

Piggsy, are you female...?

If not, why do you hate males so much...?

Looking forward to your open letter of explanation...

LOL I love how more or less immediately "a potential woman" is immediately filed under "...and therefore someone answerable to me, NoSeconds!". Ladies, please come and join the thread where my bud literally just creeped through another photographer's entire body of work looking for photos of girls. It's good, we're very classy in here.

 

[NoSeconds]

LOL I love how more or less immediately "a potential woman" is immediately filed under "...and therefore someone answerable to me, NoSeconds!". Ladies, please come and join the thread where my bud literally just creeped through another photographer's entire body of work looking for photos of girls. It's good, we're very classy in here.

Ahhh, I see - incoherent teen, trying to impress a girl...

Don't be shy mate, whatever it is you're smoking, pass it round...