Nikon 4/3 m4/3 coming in April

[BobBill]

It will be interesting to see it, if it has an eye level finder, etc. We will be able to see if the makers got smart and watch the market go our way for a change.

 

[back alley]

can't read blue on grey...

 

[Fiddler]

If I understand correctly, it won't be m4/3, but some format of their own..?

All the best,

Colin

 

[~tc~]

If the rumors are correct about them coming at the market from the opposite direction (aka pro-level down instead of amateur up) then it could be interesting. If nothing else, providing motivation/acceleration to developments in m43

 

[Streetshooter]

Above all, Nikon is a lens maker and a good one at that.
That's where their strength is.
If they actually move into m4/3, they could steal the market.

It seems Panny and Oly are slacking in this area. A few lenses here and there...
They need to step up the releases.
Nikon could take the lead very fast.
I actually hope they do...

 

[Grant]

So many toys so little time …

 

[John M Flores]

Joining M43 would certainly be an interesting market play against Canon....

 

[Ray Sachs]

Above all, Nikon is a lens maker and a good one at that.
That's where their strength is.
If they actually move into m4/3, they could steal the market.

It seems Panny and Oly are slacking in this area. A few lenses here and there...
They need to step up the releases.
Nikon could take the lead very fast.
I actually hope they do...

The question is how quickly they can learn all of the lessons associated with making lenses for contrast-detect AF and incorporate all of their fine knowledge of lenses into the smaller form factor requiring more software correction rather than optical correction? I assume they'll do it well, but do they risk being stuck in the ways of the mirror to an extent that will make it more difficult to do mirrorless as well? I have no idea how difficult a step this is for them - is it huge or minor? I hope they do it well. Competition is good for all of us. I'd really love it if the'd do it in a 4/3 format but that doesn't seem terribly likely...

Seems like a hobby that could eat up most personal discretionary spending for several more years!

-Ray

 

[Streetshooter]

Ohhh, I bet Nikon has done it's homework and had the bean counters do the crunch job already. They are very experienced with optics and plastics.

Not only would they pick up many current m4/3 users, they would have their own branded users on board. It's a smart investment for them.

They make some really remarkable cameras/lenses.
Without support from Nikon or Canon in time this format will suffer.

 

[iliakoltsov]

Street shooter , maybe i am wrong but i can hardly imagine the compatibilty with AF with their lenses. Nikon uses both mechanical and electronical drive so as far as i can see only top lenses would be compatible with internal motor. Other problem unless it used the similar stuff to fuji i cannot say how a lens which is optimized for phase detection will perform on a system which is based on contrast detection. My personal view unless they release a Full frame i cannot see the point of a competitor to M4/3 that will not offer much more than what is already proposed by M4/3. A dedicated lens format is a huge error that samsung is already starting to pay , schneider moved away to M4/3 , Sony has the ability to sustain but nikon seriously , those who buy a nokon expect pro grade gear, they do get it on DSLR why an EVIL, EVIL cannot be marketed as pro 2 reasons , extremely slow AF on any EVIL in the market in comparison to high end DSLR and the sensor size which makes it inconvenient for large prints. The sensor size causes an another problem Signal/noise ratio , basically rise in ISO is not as smooth as on a full frame.

 

[GaryAyala]

Above all, Nikon is a lens maker and a good one at that.
That's where their strength is.
If they actually move into m4/3, they could steal the market.

It seems Panny and Oly are slacking in this area. A few lenses here and there...
They need to step up the releases.
Nikon could take the lead very fast.
I actually hope they do...

I differ with that statement ... IMO, I don't think one can easily separate and distinguish between Nikon cameras and Nikkor lenses when one tries to categorize the company.

The weakest chink in the recent past has been Nikon's delay in fulfilling lens orders. Additionally, Nikon has some serious holes in their digital fast/wide prime line-up. If one had to classify Nikon as a camera maker or a lens maker ... I say due to the above statements, I'd say Nikon is a camera maker first.

Nikon really dropped the ball when in the late '90s and early 2000's they didn't think that digital would ever be considered a professional format. Canon singularly developed, expanded and dominated that market for many years. EVIL is a new digital market segment and I believe Nikon doesn't want to repeat recent history. Canon, like Sony, is a large multi-faceted/multi-market company ... Nikon is much more specialized and cannot leave any revenue generating stone unturned.

Gary

 

[photoSmart42]

Street shooter , maybe i am wrong but i can hardly imagine the compatibilty with AF with their lenses. Nikon uses both mechanical and electronical drive so as far as i can see only top lenses would be compatible with internal motor. Other problem unless it used the similar stuff to fuji i cannot say how a lens which is optimized for phase detection will perform on a system which is based on contrast detection. My personal view unless they release a Full frame i cannot see the point of a competitor to M4/3 that will not offer much more than what is already proposed by M4/3. A dedicated lens format is a huge error that samsung is already starting to pay , schneider moved away to M4/3 , Sony has the ability to sustain but nikon seriously , those who buy a nokon expect pro grade gear, they do get it on DSLR why an EVIL, EVIL cannot be marketed as pro 2 reasons , extremely slow AF on any EVIL in the market in comparison to high end DSLR and the sensor size which makes it inconvenient for large prints. The sensor size causes an another problem Signal/noise ratio , basically rise in ISO is not as smooth as on a full frame.

You're presuming Nikon will introduce their mirrorless system using the same technology as Panasonic. I'd be willing to bet that you're wrong, and they'll come out with something that will surprise us. If Nikon says something is pro level, you can guarantee it'll be pro level. They get that market, Panasonic doesn't. Extremely slow AF with PDAF lenses on CDAF systems is a technology limitation, not a format limitation.

The simple fact that any system they release is virtually guaranteed to work with their full line of existing lenses via adapters given the Nikon solution a huge advantage. Not everyone is hung up on system size. Nikon can afford to launch a new system with three or four initial lenses and a capable body because they can rely on their existing lens system to make up for the gap in the short term. That's especially true if they're marketing this as a companion system to their pro-level system - same capabilities in smaller package that still allows you to use your existing lenses in a pinch.

I'm excited to see what Nikon will offer in a mirrorless system. Given the choice, I'll take a Nikon mirrorless solution over a pro Olympus any day. Panasonic isn't even competition since they have no plans to offer a pro body or lenses.

 

[iliakoltsov]

Photosmart , you are perfectly right concerning the AF , then again what other technologies are there without mirror. The only technology that comes to mind is Fuji from what i know it has signed an agreement to develop a M4/3 EXR camera now the inherent problem on contrast af will make this camera not viable for pro sports shooter. I am not saying that it is not possible that a good AF speed is achieved until now i haven't been impressed.

Personnally for sports I realised that my G1 is well too slow. So now for sports I am using my good old Dynax 5 with Minolta lens with almost instantaneous autofocus ( until a day that I can afford the SLT 55 ).

As you can see I am sceptical about this PRO grade EVIL, on the other hand Nikon has the money and probably the best optical engineer out there. Concerning the electronic part what matters for AF and ISO as i mentionned they take everything from Sony at least on recent DSLRs. Sony couldn't get the autofocus right on the NEX.

 

[John M Flores]

There's more to pro than AF and sports. Nikon can release an EVIL with good (not spectacular AF) that can easily be the backup body for PJs, travel photogs, and others where sportslike AF is not critical. And with a couple of primes it can be the casual, knockabout camera for Nikon shooters. If I was still shooting Nikon, that's what I would want out of an EVIL Nikon.

I wish Pentax would join M43 and release a line of Limited lenses like their excellent DA21, DA35 Macro, DA40, DA70 Limiteds. That would make my day.

 

[Ray Sachs]

Concerning the electronic part what matters for AF and ISO as i mentionned they take everything from Sony at least on recent DSLRs. Sony couldn't get the autofocus right on the NEX.

In what sense couldn't Sony get the AF right on the Nex? In terms of speed? Nope, its still contrast detect, so not up to phase detect standards, but its about as fast as any contrast detect I've tried. That said, I haven't tried the GH2 yet, which I understand is a real leap forward. I just added a Nex and like it quite a bit. The AF seems to be at least on a par with my gf1, probably a bit quicker, and better than on my ep2. Not a big difference, but unless you're just talking about the basic contrast vs phase detect differences, I'm not seeing it as any worse...

As far as I understand you can't really do phase detect in a mirrorless (except using something like the A33/55, but that's not really mirrorless either). To me, that's the crux of the issue for Nikon. They're gonna need a whole new line of lenses to make the AF work as well as possible on a mirrorless camera. Just retrofitting their existing DSLR glass doesn't seem like a path they could go down without having the slowest AF on the planet. Or am I missing something?

-Ray

 

[photoSmart42]

As far as I understand you can't really do phase detect in a mirrorless (except using something like the A33/55, but that's not really mirrorless either). To me, that's the crux of the issue for Nikon. They're gonna need a whole new line of lenses to make the AF work as well as possible on a mirrorless camera. Just retrofitting their existing DSLR glass doesn't seem like a path they could go down without having the slowest AF on the planet. Or am I missing something?

-Ray

I've seen some patents floating around that aim to do just that - PDAF in a mirrorless sensor, using some of the pixels in the sensor as the detectors that would have otherwise been fed through the prism into the AF mechanism. As I said, I don't think we can assume Nikon will use existing technology for their mirrorless. They've had several years to think about this system, and I have to believe they'll put out something we haven't seen yet.

 

[Streetshooter]

This is all assuming that m4/3, Panny & Oly have reached max potential for the format.
I think not. If Nikon comes in, they will do it their way, with their new system.
They of course have studied the technology that exist here but will come in with improvements. Why else. To repeat what has been done just to brand a label.
Nah...I welcome the engineers from Nikon and hopefully Canon to bring forth a new generation in m4/3. I just hope the bean counters let them move in this direction.

We as the users must keep an eye open for new technology in this format.
It's good already but no doubt will get gooder!

I know I ranted on another thread about technology vrs images but really, we need the engineers from the big guys to straighten out the stuff in our home format.

 

[Ray Sachs]

I've seen some patents floating around that aim to do just that - PDAF in a mirrorless sensor, using some of the pixels in the sensor as the detectors that would have otherwise been fed through the prism into the AF mechanism. As I said, I don't think we can assume Nikon will use existing technology for their mirrorless. They've had several years to think about this system, and I have to believe they'll put out something we haven't seen yet.

Well, that would be truly cool indeed. Would that render all of the contrast detect lenses that Pany, Sony, Oly, and now Samsung have developed and are developing obsolete? Will be interesting to watch it develop...

-Ray

 

[iliakoltsov]

Photosmart, i have seen those patents too. None of them were nearly made by Nikon. Fuji patented just that but has signed M4/3 consortium aggreement , Canon has development a weird version of it to enhance video on the new 5D. It was announced for the GH2 as well , but this technology got lost in the way.

This happens when a lens optimized for phase detection is adapted on a mirrorless camera using contrast AF :

[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0H1QDlH-a4]YouTube - NEX-5 v3 with LA-EA1 v2 with Sony SAM lenses[/ame]

See by yourself

Hope nikon will come with something better than Sony

 

[Streetshooter]

That vid is exactly why Nikon will come in with new ideas.