Nikon 1, the star of the mirrorless world.

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by lenshoarder, Jul 10, 2013.

  1. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    I always thought of the Nikon 1 as a failure. Too little, too late. According to this article looking at mirrorless camera sales, it's the star of the show.

    In short, the Japanese love mirrorless. Americans hate it. My personal experience mirrors. I've tried recommending people at Best Buy to go mirrorless when I'm checking out cameras. 9 times out of 10, they say they rather invest in a "real" camera and go to the DSLR section.

    Mirrorless camera sales don't reflect potential
  2. caimi

    caimi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 13, 2012
    middle US
    Thanks for the link. A very pessimistic conclusion but he might be correct. Or it may take the "bigger is better" mentality of US consumers more time to change.
  3. dav1dz

    dav1dz Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Nov 6, 2012
    People think Japan is weird. The rest of the world sometimes think the US is weird.

    I have to tip a bartender? That's ridiculous.

    It's all perspective.

    I often lump consumer behaviour of the US together with Canada, even though us Canadians think we're different, we really aren't in this aspect.
  4. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    To parapharse H.L. Mencken ... HL to his friends ... Nobody every lost money underestimating the intellence of the American people.
  5. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    I was in the local Staples the other day picking up a new trackball and they were selling T2i kits for $349. An 18MP APS-C camera and an 18-55 EFS kit lens for $350. Compare that to the OM-D with the kit lens at $1299 with 16MP + the 12-50, and a nominally shorter lens. Given the IQ is roughly the same, and the predilection for NA consumers to buy DSLR which do you think they would buy?
  6. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    from the article (emphasis mine)

    I was in a dimly lit gym the other day at my sons 9th grade "graduation", and I watched a mother with a Canikon DSLR + tele lens unable to get any focus lock. She kept looking at her camera wondering what was wrong with it.
  7. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Yup, when I read that I also noticed how off-the-mark it was, nstelemark. But I also have an idea where that misinformation came from. The only thing unreliable about CDAF is Tracking AF. S-AF is blazingly fast with lenses made for CDAF, and also much more accurate than PDAF... in good light AND bad light.

    PDAF was always the worst when it came to low-light AF, always struggling but worse yet giving lots of false locks. Any experienced DSLR photographer should be saving themselves the frustration and switching to MF once the light gets low. It doesn't matter what system they were using, my peers were always cursing their cameras in low-lit events, while I'm just happily focusing away with the focus ring once I see the light going down.

    However, I've noticed that since Micro Four-Thirds has gained footing a lot of people are starting to spread the idea that AF is C-AF, and that tracking AF is all that matters. Thus, m4/3 has been gaining the reputation of "unreliable AF" as you see in this article, because people just believe what they hear and don't know the difference.

    Personally, when I shot with DSLRs I hardly ever touched C-AF, Servo, Tracking AF, or whatever name it was going by. S-AF was mostly all I used. Not everybody thinks that Tracking AF is all there is to AF. To those who do, then there may be a good reason to stick with a DSLR but to lump all of us together and make blanket statements like "DSLRs have more reliable AF" is just plain uneducated or inexperienced.
  8. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    You're comparing a clearance price on a camera 3 generations old with MSRP. That same $350 will buy a NEX 3N + 16-50mm kit.
  9. gochugogi

    gochugogi Mu-43 Veteran

    Here in Honolulu it seems every other Japanese tourist is carrying a white Olympus M4/3 with leather never-ready. I've yet to see a Western tourist with M4/3 as they seem to prefer either a Rebel or smartphone with little in-between.
  10. RevBob

    RevBob Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Jun 4, 2011
    NorthWestern PA
    I think the bottom line in the U.S. is advertising. There are few ads for Olympus/Panasonic and they do little to highlight the advantages of the :43: system. When people take time to look at the cameras up-close and hear the details they are generally surprised and impressed. Sadly, word of mouth doesn't equate to a huge, national advertising campaign.
  11. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    Oh no question, but they won't buy the NEX over there T2i either. The T2i looks like a real camera and it has more MP - it must be better. As long as these sorts of deals exist mirrorless will have an uphill battle.
  12. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    I think it's the fact that a DSLR looks like a real camera more than anything else. People price things by the pound when it comes to cameras. P&S cameras should be cheap because they are small. DSLRs are big so they should cost more. Given the choice between buyiing a DSLR or a mirrorless both priced at $500, Americans will pick the DSLR. Why pay the same price for something that weighs less? For mirrorless to make it in the US, they have to be priced less than DSLRs. Right now, the prices are about the same.

    It's also a matter of image. Do people see professional photographers using mirrorless cameras on the news? No. They use DSLRs. Branding also has a lot to do with it. Most Americans only think there are two real camera companies, Canon and Nikon. The rest are also rans. Case in point was the recent Canon EOS M versus Sony NEX 3N sales. They were both priced at $350. People went crazy over the Canon. Yawned at the 3N.
  13. madogvelkor

    madogvelkor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 22, 2013
    Probably the T2i because it has more megapixels. Even though the OM-D has better image quality, is better in low light, is lighter, and looks better. :)
  14. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had a consistant problem getting low light focus lock in Single or Servo mode with my Canons in low light conditions. I shoot a ton of low light, high school gyms, high school theaters, outdoor high school soccer fields, streets, et cetera. For sports and action, with a dSLR, typically all I shoot is in Servo mode (CAF in µ4/3). I've never found a need to MF my dSLR's under any lighting conditions.

    And I never had a problem with µ4/3 and SAF in low light conditions (even with the 20mm).

    "Problem" is such a subjective word. For me a "problem" equates to "unable to get the shot". I've always been able to get my shot with a dSLR. For action, I get less keepers with µ4/3 ... CAF is not a problem, it just isn't as good as a Phase Detect camera with an optical viewfinder.

  15. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Ayup. I usually don't comment on this kind of discussion because I only started using a DSLR relatively recently so maybe my experience with AF on one is different than someone might have had years ago. But I have only had actual AF failures to lock in low light once that I can recall with either of the two Nikon bodies I've used, and it was during the past week. In this case it was a pitch black ballroom with only stage lights on behind me, trying to take photos of kids running around in the dark. Even then, it was only a handful of shots where it failed to achieve focus.

    As it happens I was shooting a GH3 in the same environment with a 75mm f/1.8 and 7-14mm and it fared at least as badly if not worse. In retrospect I should have enabled the focus assist light on my flash and/or camera body (I normally have it off because it's extremely distracting and I don't usually need it). But the point is, both cameras worked for me just fine given reasonable working conditions. I sincerely doubt outside of doing this same event again next year that I'll be working anywhere else with a gaggle of kids running around in a pitch black room :tongue:

    There's no seriously significant advantage to either system outside of tracking focus IMO. I personally find the AF system of the DSLR faster/more convenient to work with overall when it comes to moving the focus point around through the viewfinder. That's using Panasonic bodies which don't have the focusing point grid like Olympus, and for the way I prefer to work. Things could be different for someone else that prefers to use the touchscreen to focus or another method like face detection, in which case it could easily swing the balance in the other direction.
  16. gochugogi

    gochugogi Mu-43 Veteran

    Or maybe they want a viewfinder. Most of the M4/3 in stores, save for the very tiptop models, lack a viewfinder and even the cheapest DSLR comes with a decent viewfinder.
  17. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    I would buy that except for the fact that I see many people use a DSLR just like a big P&S camera. They hold it at arm's length and site using the LCD on the back.
  18. monk3y

    monk3y Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 14, 2013
    in The Cloud...
    There are tons of DSLR users here but a lot of them have mirrorless stuff as well for travel I assume. As you probably know, here in Japan most people travel by public transportation. Even if they have a car, in most cases it is just more convenient to travel by public transportation. So a smaller package comes in Handy.

    Also, yes marketing for Oly and Panasonic here is quite intense I might say.
  19. Although I seldom see micro 4/3 cameras when out and about (mostly DSLRs) the only time I've seen a DSLR user holding their camera at arms length is when they've been using it for video (which isn't often).

    What I have noticed is if I pass my camera (whether DSLR or micro 4/3) to a non camera using friend to take a photo they invariably hold it at arms length as you describe.
  20. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Different markets = Different consumers.
    This is perfect case in point. "We" (US & Europe) scuff at the Nikon 1 and Pentax Q systems but yet in Asia, they're hot sellers. :smile: