Next gen Lumix GH series cameras unveiling May 25. Link in post

Brownie

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Well the doom and gloom has been constant, one thing after another no matter how good news we get. This news imo was the best our system could get, that there will be a new 24MP sensor for both companies to use, and Panasonic will continue with M43 despite all the doom and gloom.

You're not the best person to say to favour debate, as you didn't even answer the two posts above, so I had to bring these points again when you suggested that stills focus is over for Panasonic.

Like one member earlier asked you, which camera companies do you see releasing statements about products which come maybe a year into the future? There is none. Your complaining about it makes no sense, and is doom and gloom to me.

All the manufacturers will also focus more in video as its a growing market. You can't get a stills only camera, or anything toward that end, just like you haven't thus far in the past when video came to ILC's long ago.

It's very obvious that GH6 is not a camera for you, but the next "G9" obviously will be if you can wait.

Like I have said earlier regarding fears of Panasonic ditching a ready made ILC system in M43, I don't see any sense in that for them. They have a full lens line up and only need to upgrade cameras in under 5 years time, however they see it best.
Look, this started with a simple statement. It becomes exhausting to try and respond to every single comment or question from every person. You were not singled out. IMO, the responses were far more overboard than my initial statement of disappointment in the announcement. I am not the D&G guy, I have in fact dismissed it in many threads.

And again, you miss the point about product statements. It would be so easy for them to say something as simple as 'watch your inbox about future releases using the new sensor.' or something to that effect. I am not asking anyone to unveil something early, just let us know it's on your radar. Instead, they give us a firmware update. Why? What would be the point in making the G9 better if they plan to replace it in the near (12-18mos) future?

And one question, I did not hear them say a 24MP sensor, nor have I read it anywhere. It is entirely possible I missed it during the presentation as I was watching at work. I heard an 'improved sensor'. Did they in fact say 24MP?
 

swifty

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5.7k means around 5700 pixels on the long side.
For 4:3 that means at least 5700X4275 = 24.4MP.
Unless of course it’s multi aspect ratio then it may be less.
 

demiro

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We have places here to share photos and places to share for C&C. Maybe we need the same for this kind of thing. A place for debate and a place just to vent a little about what you're not happy about.
 

CyVan

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And again, you miss the point about product statements. It would be so easy for them to say something as simple as 'watch your inbox about future releases using the new sensor.' or something to that effect. I am not asking anyone to unveil something early, just let us know it's on your radar. Instead, they give us a firmware update. Why? What would be the point in making the G9 better if they plan to replace it in the near (12-18mos) future?
I've been using Panasonic since late 2015. I've never heard them make any camera related statements more than 6 months out as far as I can remember. The closest to that was the GH5 development announcement back in the day. Any news we've ever gotten about a new Panasonic product or direction their heading has always come from rumor sites not Panasonic themselves. So I wouldn't expect them to start now.

Why wouldn't they improve it? It's a popular, flagship camera and the firmware gives tangible benefits to key features that people can make use of now. Any new replacement for the G9 will hopefully have a lot more going for it than the simple improvements this firmware brought to it. Look at the howls of protest from G90 owners that they were left out of the update process. I'm sure there's a very good technical reason this was done (same reason the GH5 was left out of some of the previous upgrade cycles). G9 users would be just as upset if the G100 got AF updates to match the S5 instead of the G9. All they've done , as they did with the huge video upgrade before it, is cement the G9's position as the premiere stills-centric flagship along with the GH5 II. Both flagships are now on par whereever possible , with the S-series.

P.S. I completely get your concern about having to buy an expensive GH to get the new sensor when u have no interest in video, but I think its going to be ok. Panasonic is going to stick with its flagship cameras and, considering the GH6 is due within the next 6 months , the G9's replacement is more than likely already well in development. It's just that they only announced the GH6 because that's what's coming next.
 

Brownie

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5.7k means around 5700 pixels on the long side.
For 4:3 that means at least 5700X4275 = 24.4MP.
Unless of course it’s multi aspect ratio then it may be less.
It's that multi aspect ratio thing that leaves me unsure, but I suspect 24 is the right guess.
I've been using Panasonic since late 2015. I've never heard them make any camera related statements more than 6 months out as far as I can remember. The closest to that was the GH5 development announcement back in the day. Any news we've ever gotten about a new Panasonic product or direction their heading has always come from rumor sites not Panasonic themselves. So I wouldn't expect them to start now.

Why wouldn't they improve it? It's a popular, flagship camera and the firmware gives tangible benefits to key features that people can make use of now. Any new replacement for the G9 will hopefully have a lot more going for it than the simple improvements this firmware brought to it. Look at the howls of protest from G90 owners that they were left out of the update process. I'm sure there's a very good technical reason this was done (same reason the GH5 was left out of some of the previous upgrade cycles). G9 users would be just as upset if the G100 got AF updates to match the S5 instead of the G9. All they've done , as they did with the huge video upgrade before it, is cement the G9's position as the premiere stills-centric flagship along with the GH5 II. Both flagships are now on par whereever possible , with the S-series.

P.S. I completely get your concern about having to buy an expensive GH to get the new sensor when u have no interest in video, but I think its going to be ok. Panasonic is going to stick with its flagship cameras and, considering the GH6 is due within the next 6 months , the G9's replacement is more than likely already well in development. It's just that they only announced the GH6 because that's what's coming next.
And with that, CyVan becomes my new Psychologist! All good points and reasonably stated. Thanks.
 

BDR-529

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Panasonic is going to stick with its flagship cameras and, considering the GH6 is due within the next 6 months , the G9's replacement is more than likely already well in development. It's just that they only announced the GH6 because that's what's coming next.

There are three reasons why I don't believe that we will see a "stills oriented" m4/3 camera under Panny brand even when a less expensive hybrid model with the same new sensor must be launched pretty soon because $2500€ is just too much in the crop sensor world to sell in substantial quantities.

First is the fact that pannys adventures in the Full Frame land have demonstrated that demand for Panny-branded stills cameras is nill whereas anything video-centric becomes industry standard and receives cult following in a profitable niche.

Second is the fact that Panasonic already discarded artificial product differentation between "stills" and "video" m4/3 bodies in 2019 when they turned G9 into a marginally lesser GH5 with a free FW update. They might just as well have started calling these GH4.9 and GH5 because that's what they are with the latest FW.

Third reason is the fact that Panny Imaging CEO has been rambling about these mythical content creators ad nauseam for over a year now.

Just have a look at GH5 II and GH6 press material. The word "photo" appears in the text exactly once and even that one ended there by accident when somebody copy-pasted a chapter from an earlier flyer. Remember that "H" in GH comes from word Hybrid which means that these bodies are already designed for both video and stills. What more do you want?
 
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Brownie

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And you guys call me Doom and Gloom? YEESH!

@AmritR I was driving by the local shop today. (no really, I did not drive there on purpose, I was on my way back from a project) and had occasion to hold both the Z5 and the S5 in my hands. The S5 wins, no contest. It feels very G9-like. The Nikon has a much deeper grip and felt clunky, although in truth I'm sure I'd get used to it in time. The 20-60 lens is small and light, but the zoom ring was pretty stiff. The 24-200 Nikon zoom was much smoother and not a large lens.

They wouldn't put a battery in the S5. It's the only one they've been able to get and they are afraid of damage and not being able to sell it as new, so no testing. In fact she had to get permission to open the freakin' box and let me hold it.
 

RAH

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There are three reasons why I don't believe that we will see a "stills oriented" m4/3 camera under Panny brand even when a less expensive hybrid model with the same new sensor must be launched pretty soon because $2500€ is just too much in the crop sensor world to sell in substantial quantities.
This discussion is kind of confusing me. I consider (and I think @Brownie ) the G9 to be a "stills oriented" camera, even though it can do pretty good video (I guess). But your statement 'Panasonic already discarded artificial product differentation between "stills" and "video" m4/3 bodies in 2019 when they turned G9 into a marginally lesser GH5 with a free FW update' tells me that this is an "artificial" differentiation. So therefore the G9 is not a stills-oriented camera to you, but it is to me. That makes sense because it's how we would use the camera.

Therefore, if the G9 gets an update in 2022 to that new sensor and you celebrate it for being a less expensive video alternative to the GH6, and I (and @Brownie , I think) celebrate it as the best m43 stills camera to come along in several years, then everyone is happy and there's no conflict or doom (or even gloom!).

Just to clarify - I have never owned a Pany m43 camera except the GM5 and think the G9 is too big, but ANY news about a more modern m43 sensor focuses my mind and brightens my day.
 

Darmok N Jalad

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Since the improved sensor will naturally lend itself to stills, and since it would take very little R&D to introduce a new stills camera, why not just say so?
The thing is, they could promise exactly what you want and deliver it in 1.5 years, and they still run a very real risk of you not buying it. Not because of anything specific about you, but because customers can be very fickle. I know there are products that I wished for a year ago that are available today, and I'm not buying anymore because my interests have changed.

There are no doubt many product studies being done that inform tech companies of what a realistic timeline is for announcing future products. It's very likely not worth the risk to say anything right now, because it doesn't offer enough consumer traction in exchange for giving the competition time to prepare and have a product undercut you at the time of launch. (You see it a lot in the semiconductor industry, to the point that one time a company pushed a firmware update after product launch in order to arrive at performance parity with their competition's new product.) I don't think Panasonic is being any different than the other companies. They probably won't talk about a product until it's been finalized and is in production. The G9 successor is likely not finalized and would then definitely not be in production.
 

BDR-529

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This discussion is kind of confusing me. I consider (and I think @Brownie ) the G9 to be a "stills oriented" camera, even though it can do pretty good video (I guess).

G9 was originally released in December 2017 as Panny's high-end "stills oriented"-camera and positioned parallel to GH5 which was at the top of their "video"-lineup. Back then G9 was given only basic video features and inferior quality compared to GH5 in order to somehow differentiate it from GH5 and make it "stills-oriented".

Even panny couldn't pretend long that maintaining two artificial lineups makes any sense and in 2019 they simply released a free FW update which turned G9 into GH4.9 because it got practically the same video specs as GH5 which in turn was always just as good stills camera as G9. There was never any real difference between them.

This is the simple reason why I don't believe that Panny would ever release a new m4/3 "stills" camera. They have already stopped pretending that such thing even exists in the first place.

All digital cameras are hybrid by design so why intentionally cripple the video quality panny has become so famous for? What they still need is a cheaper version of GH6 to create some real sales volume though.

Let's hope that OMDS has access to this sensor too. They could create a body that absolutely sucks at video because that seems to be the real definition of "stills-orieted" and take some pressure off from panny. Everyone will be happy.
 
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Brownie

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What they still need is a cheaper version of GH6 to create some real sales volume though.
So now we're back to multiple versions of the new GH6...

I watched the last 10-15 minutes of today's presentation, the Q&A part. Several people asked when there would be an update for the G9. These questions went unanswered.
 

Generationfourth

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So now we're back to multiple versions of the new GH6...

I watched the last 10-15 minutes of today's presentation, the Q&A part. Several people asked when there would be an update for the G9. These questions went unanswered.
I am not surprised given the event was aptly titled "An in-depth GH conversation". Traditionally camera companies, or any company in any industry, would not even address a question like that.
 

Stanga

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I would happily buy the GH5M2 for still over the G9. I hate the prism housing design of the G9, which is so odd in shape compared to the other Panasonic m43 cameras. And then there is that missing 4th pin on the hotshoe. It robs you from being able to use a flash that is powered by the camera, or use some of the more advanced audio and video accessories that plug into the hotshoe and are powered by the camera.
 

speedy

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There are three reasons why I don't believe that we will see a "stills oriented" m4/3 camera under Panny brand even when a less expensive hybrid model with the same new sensor must be launched pretty soon because $2500€ is just too much in the crop sensor world to sell in substantial quantities.

First is the fact that pannys adventures in the Full Frame land have demonstrated that demand for Panny-branded stills cameras is nill whereas anything video-centric becomes industry standard and receives cult following in a profitable niche.

Second is the fact that Panasonic already discarded artificial product differentation between "stills" and "video" m4/3 bodies in 2019 when they turned G9 into a marginally lesser GH5 with a free FW update. They might just as well have started calling these GH4.9 and GH5 because that's what they are with the latest FW.

Third reason is the fact that Panny Imaging CEO has been rambling about these mythical content creators ad nauseam for over a year now.

Just have a look at GH5 II and GH6 press material. The word "photo" appears in the text exactly once and even that one ended there by accident when somebody copy-pasted a chapter from an earlier flyer. Remember that "H" in GH comes from word Hybrid which means that these bodies are already designed for both video and stills. What more do you want?
Come on man. We've been through this already, in the shape of the GH5 successor. Right up until this week, with wailing and gnashing of teeth in regards to Panasonic obviously giving up on m4/3 because of the GH5 mkII specs. No new sensor, or even development of, 36x24 has eaten everything, and more, of development budget, and so on, and so forth.
And look what happened. Some people just can't help themselves, obsessing over negativity. Weird way to content yourselves.
 

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Concerning the new sensor, is there any reason why (or why not) Olympus might use a completely different sensor in its upcoming models (if such will exist)? I don't know the history of m43 development, so I am just wondering why the two companies seem to stay in step with each other. Is it some type of format agreement or whatever?
 

Stanga

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A friend of mine once commented at a get together amongst friends that nobody ever asks what camera and lens was used to take adult pictures as seen on the adult sites, even though there is quite a bit of pixel peeping going on.
 

Brownie

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I am not surprised given the event was aptly titled "An in-depth GH conversation". Traditionally camera companies, or any company in any industry, would not even address a question like that.
Ah, but they did go over the GH5 and G9 Firmware and discussed the GH6 a bit. And I didn't really expect they would, but I was satisfied to know I'm not the only one.
 

speedy

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Bit of a logic fail going on here too. We're constantly told that m4/3 is failing, due to lack of volume/market share. A new sensor is not viable economically etc etc. A new sensor appears, and the tune suddenly changes, and a higher end stills camera (with better profit margins) utilising the same sensor won't be forthcoming. WTF?
 

John King

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Bit of a logic fail going on here too. We're constantly told that m4/3 is failing, due to lack of volume/market share. A new sensor is not viable economically etc etc. A new sensor appears, and the tune suddenly changes, and a higher end stills camera (with better profit margins) utilising the same sensor won't be forthcoming. WTF?
I think you are understanding why I stopped posting on DPR. It's the endless repetition of that sort of garbage by people who couldn't run a chook raffle, let alone any kind of business ...
 

CyVan

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All digital cameras are hybrid by design so why intentionally cripple the video quality panny has become so famous for? What they still need is a cheaper version of GH6 to create some real sales volume though.
Ok , so here's the question: How would they feature differentiate this cheaper version of a GH6 from the $2500 version but keep the same sensor?
  • Add Time Limits because less effective heat dispersion.
  • Less codecs
  • None of the professional tools like waveform / vectorscope / shutter angle
  • Maybe no dedicated video button or tally light
  • no anamorphic support
That's starting to sound a lot like a G9 to me.
Every recent Panasonic camera has been good for video, even the lowly GX85 but the higher up you go the more pro features you get.
 
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