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New Leica T system mirrorless camera...

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by letsgofishing, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. letsgofishing

    letsgofishing Mu-43 Veteran

    Nov 21, 2012
    South Africa
    Mike Kaplan
  2. BigOwl

    BigOwl Mu-43 Regular

    May 3, 2013
    San Antonio, Texas USA
    OK, here's what I don't understand. All the reports of this new Leica say that some lenses will be coming from Japan and then stress "but they won't be from Panasonic", like everyone should be happy to hear that. Why is that? Panasonic lenses are respectable designs and quality of manufacturing. Everyone knows there has been collaboration between Panasonic and Leica on new lenses, with some of them carrying the Leica brand getting very good reports in quality tests and user feedback. Seems to me Leica could do a lot worse than Panasonic for a Japanese partner for this new Leica T. So why make a strong point that it will not be Panasonic?
  3. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    I think Leica is jugs trying to distance themselves from the re-branded Panasonic part of their lineup. In my view, it's less a knock an Panasonic, and more a commentary on Leica selling the name alone. I think they are trying to say "it's a real Leica", not just another attempt to cash in on the name (especially since the net is full of people saying that is exactly what they are doing). And for what it's worth Panasonic has done really well with lens design, especially since they compete head to head against Olympus, who are one of the legendary optics companies, and they come out on top as often as not.
  4. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Because it brings up uncomfortable questions, such as why a Panasonic Leica 15/1.7 is $600 whereas a Leica 23/2 is $2000. Bottom line, they don't want people paying Leica prices for these lenses, which means avoiding acknowledging that these are mass-produced by some Japanese company, not hand built in a German factory.
  5. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

  6. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Perhaps the reason is more obvious.

    Panasonic didn't make it.

    Large optical manufactures such as Hoya and Cosina who are responsible for many of the optical elements for some of the biggest names in photography certainly don't make it known either. I would bet its a mutual and standard agreement no different from other big names. My bet is Cosina. Some of the highest quality optics have come out of them... but most would never known it.

    Leica certainly doesn't have a history of going out of their way to hide manufacturers. They may not volunteer the information but the threads over on Leica boards have certainly been able to figure it out.

    Case in point. the M240. Announced Sept 17th, 2012


    Same time as this announcement for their sensor manufacturer


    They already mentioned that a Japanese manufacturer already is involved. That's enough already to bring up the same "uncomfortable" questions.... but I bet Leica simply doesn't see those questions as a concern. Why? i'm not sure. But someone on another forum mentioned that they don't believe the T system is targeted towards the traditional M shooter crowd. THe same crowd that expressed disappointment when Leica moved M-mount lens manufacturing from Wetzler (near Solms) Germany to Midland, Canada back in the 70s. I'm certainly an M shooter and the T system doesn't really ring with me.

    Honestly, all this conjecture over the "secrets" of this T system is being analyzed to the n degree looking for a more "sinister" reason. I think the simple answer is that there are a set of NDAs involved and neither side wants to violate them.
  7. rklepper

    rklepper Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 19, 2012
    Iowa, USA
    How many of you finding fault with these system would actually buy one? I find absolutely no fault with the Leica systems and mostly because I could never afford one.
  8. BobbyTan

    BobbyTan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Long Beach, CA
    I see lots of faults with the Leica T and it's not because I could not afford one. I may buy a FF Sony and maybe also consider using Leica lenses on it but I would not consider a Leica T.
  9. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Doesn't fit me either and I am primarily a Leica shooter

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
  10. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    Here's another possibility, maybe it's Panasonic who doesn't want the cat out of the bag that they're the ones making the Leica T lenses especially since they're actively involved with the M43 system. :rolleyes:  :biggrin: Like many who have pointed it out here on this thread, Panasonic has the established relationship, they've worked with Leica optic engineers and they have the mass production facilities to produce lenses to Leica specs. Makes more sense to me than going to Hoya/Cosina.

  11. fortwodriver

    fortwodriver Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Nov 15, 2013
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I thought Leica users were THRILLED that M cameras moved to Midland... It was the German engineers at Midland who convinced Wetzlar NOT to discontinue the M... Leica was ready to give up the M and go dedicated into SLR land. That aside, Leica-Midland is basically Raytheon and makes/made a lot of military optics. I wish my M4 was one of those rare "made in Canada" versions...

    But I digress. Leica isn't stupid...They're not going to dwell on the fact that those lenses aren't made by german craftsmen. I bet those lenses are being made by Konica-Minolta... Kauffman is a business man. He happens to like taking pictures. This, to me, looks like a purely "business decision" camera system.
  12. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    On one hand, we have Stephan Daniel, directory of product management at Leica, and on the other we have your distrust for Leica. (Why?) Cosina is a much bigger name in optics than Panasonic. I wouldn't be surprised if Panasonic optical elements are sourced from Cosina as well. Honestly... it really doesn't matter. Either way, the more I think about it the more I don't think it will sell in huge numbers.

    The sky is blue. No doubt you will argue its green.

    Its not a conspiracy.. its more likely the result of something very simple... NDAs between involved parties. Leica has already mentioned that Japanese manufacturers were brought into the picture in order to keep the price point they targeted. Nothing wrong with that.
  13. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Yes and no.

    You are absolutely correct that Leica M users were thrilled that the M cameras were moved to Midland... because the alternative was to discontinue the system all together. Leica users however were still disappointed (for many reasons both justified and un-justified as well as imaginary) and till this day, the German built lenses command a higher price in the used market. But honestly this is so moot these days.
  14. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, USA
    I'm not disputing Cosina is involved, but your opinion is just speculation as much as mine. Panasonic's Yamagata factory seems more than capable of mass producing high quality lenses if need be.

    Old press release detailing Panasonic Yamagata lens factory process and their Leica level QC:

    Also Cosina isn't as great as you make them out to be, they've made lots of mass produced junkers for other camera manufacturers.

  15. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Um... Except that Stephan Daniel's statement is not speculation.

    If you actually read my posts (here and in the other thread), I never claimed that what I was saying was absolute fact... I simply pointed out that there are other possibilities far more logical than the contrived conspiracy theories you insist exists between Panasonic and Leica.

    Let me quote myself from this thread
  16. picturewow

    picturewow Mu-43 Regular

    Jul 16, 2013
    My initial impression is that I Iike the clean design. I think it is time for a camera to have a good touchscreen interface.
  17. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I thought that already existed. It's called an iPhone. :biggrin:
  18. ...or a Samsung NX300.
  19. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I also immediately thought of Samsung. At least in a store setting, the NX300 build feels great (not sure about samsung lenses). I like the silver with dark brown leather. Very sharp and android too.

    Toyed with the idea of hanging up the MFT system and going with the Samsung NX. I've become a big fan of their products.
  20. I'm not really considering moving from Micro 4/3 to Samsung NX. When it comes to the system as a whole and particularly the higher end bodies Micro 4/3 still comes out on top, but the NX300 with a few prime lenses (20mm, 30mm, and 45mm in my case) is a compact, low cost package with a quality feeling body, beautiful sensor, tiny (albeit plasticky) lenses with sharp optics and nice character. I only realised the other day that I own a Samsung camera, smartphone, fridge, and microwave :tongue:
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