New camera basically means new computer operating system with lens.

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by Mister Summar, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. Mister Summar

    Mister Summar Mu-43 Regular

    Aug 31, 2015
    I miss the old ASS: Aperture, shutter, sensitivity. That's all it was. A brand new camera body out of the box is preset so that you can dial it to P and away you go. Then the guilt sets in when presented with the variables of the latest camera that rival the number of stars in the Milky Way. So, I have the new Pen F and I'm going to turn off every single option in the menu. Then I can turn them on as necessity or curiosity dictates after I've read what each one does. Wish me luck.
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  2. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Good luck, but make sure to post pictures.
  3. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 1, 2010
    Agreed. Actually IMO the problem you identify is compounded by my ability to change a setting with my nose on the LCD or a stray finger on a function button. The way I have been attacking it lately is to go carefully through the manual and get all the settings where I want them (mostly "off" as you suggest), then saving that configuration as C1. With that done, I can always go back to a basic photography mode. "P" OTOH faithfully remembers any goofy settings I may have made inadvertently or even deliberately. So I have to audit "P" every once in a while and clean up the goofiness -- if I can spot it in the maze of menus.
  4. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    I did exactly that when I got my EM5II. I then turned on different features as I needed them. Setting all those buttons at once was useless because I couldn't remember where everything was located.
  5. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    What about the menu settings where OFF means ON?
    Where you think ON is ON but ON is really OFF?
    And then what about all the clockwise/anticlockwise choices which are neither OFF or ON?
  6. Mister Summar

    Mister Summar Mu-43 Regular

    Aug 31, 2015
    Damn you Ulfric, Now I have to include Alpha Centauri to get enough stars to match settings! I bet you live exactly on the equator and are puzzled when your bathtub drain sometimes rotates clockwise and sometimes counter clockwise.
  7. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Except it never was that. New cameras came without a sensor so they couldn't take a photo right out of the box. You had to buy a sensor and every sensor you bought was only good for a certain number of shots, usually 20 or 36 but some people used cameras with a different size sensor that came in 12 or 34 shot sizes. Even worse, every sensor you bought only worked at one ISO setting, and you had to choose whether it was a colour or a monochrome sensor. The light meter wasn't integrated with the sensor and every time you changed your sensor you had to manually ensure that your light meter was programmed for the correct ISO of the new sensor. We'd all forget to do that at regular intervals and end up with under or overexposed shots as a result.

    You had to destroy the sensor to get the photos out, and the destruction involved nasty chemical processes that could result in poisoning for the person doing that task, and created lots of chemical waste besides wasting lots of valuable water. These processes also had to be done in the dark or under fancy lights called "safe lights" which encouraged you to stumble around in the near dark bumping against things, hurting yourself, and making a mess. The really good sensors, the ones that had the biggest followings, produced an intermediary image we called a negative because it was all wrong, the light areas of the scene were dark and the dark areas of the scene were light. How crazy was that? There was an alternative type of sensor which produced a final image in which the dark parts of the scene were dark and the light parts were light but no one called that a positive because you couldn't call something that wasn't as good as a negative a positive. Instead we called it a transparency because you could actually look through it, and it was so small that you either had to stick it in a fancy machine and look at the image projected on a bed sheet hung on the wall, or use a fancy magnifying glass device with its own light.

    I used to use a few of those old ASS camera systems and I don't miss them.

    As for turning everything off and then only turning on the things you want, it really isn't the way to go. It takes you a lot longer to turn everything off, work out what you want on, and then go back and turn that on than it does to simply go through the menu options and turn off anything that is set to On which you don't want, and turn on anything which is set to Off that you do want. One run through the menu system only changing the settings that aren't what you want is a hell of a lot quicker and easier than two runs through the menu system, the first one to turn everything off and the second one to turn on those things that you want on which means turning on a lot of things you just turned off.

    The good old days weren't all that good, the brave new world is neither brave nor new, and new cameras have always come with frustration and angst built in. Camera designers are sadists, we photographers are masochists, and the world in which we live is absolutely the best of all possible worlds for camera designers and photographers to share given their opposing yet complementary character traits.

    All of the above very tongue in cheek but I do think it's quicker and easier just to change the settings that aren't the way you want them and I don't miss the old "ASS days", they were never really as simple as we choose to remember.
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  8. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 1, 2010
    :popcorm2: Ah, yes, but we could upgrade to the best available sensors for a pittance instead of having to spend a fortune on a new camera. And every sensor came fresh and dust-free.

    And that facile "one run through the menu system" on my GX8 involves 31 major submenus, many of which have multiple choices. Easily 100 parameter settings overall, many of which are represented by obscure symbols or incomprehensible names that necessitate a tedious hunt through the camera manual just to figure out what the he# they are about. For example: "Zebra Pattern" may be "Zebra 1," "Zebra 2," and "Off." If I am going to Tanzania do I dare turn it off and risk my zebras going all white?

    I think that feature-itus has passed the point where any user actually cares to use all that is there even if he could keep it all straight in his head. I want a "Reset to my defaults" button and a way to prune all the garbage (think "art filters", babies' names memory) off the menus.:popcorm2:
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  9. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Try the Olympus menu system :-(

    All I said was that the one run through was quicker and easier than turning everything off and then turning on just what you want. I did not say that it was quick or easy, period.

    After all, I did say that camera designers were sadists and photographers were masochists, and that new cameras have always come with frustration and angst built in.
  10. Mister Summar

    Mister Summar Mu-43 Regular

    Aug 31, 2015
    Here's a couple if interiors of North Shore Congregation Israel, Glencoe, IL Pen-F w/ 17mm 1.8 Zuiko.

    NSCI interior 1.JPG NSCI interior 4.JPG
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  11. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    After couple warranty swaps and major firmware upgrades (reseting all settings), I now can set my EM1 in 15-20 minutes, it's not really that hard.
    Still, my biggest pet peeve is when one setting disables another one.

    PS: or just save for Leica 60 ;)

    View attachment 456978
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  12. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    A new camera is not a Rubik's Cube for me. It's a device for making photographs, and since I generally know what I'll be making photographs of, and how I want them to look I just figure out how to make it do what I want it to do. I don't pay any attention to any of the 57 facacta art filters, their 18 variations, nano-incremental stacked, sliced and diced high resolution dreck. It's a variation on the 100 monkeys with a 100 typewriters creating a new Shakespeare play. Now it's one guy pushing buttons, twirling dials, getting lost in a maze of menus in the pursuit of art. He has about the same odds as the monkeys.
  13. Gary5

    Gary5 Mu-43 Veteran Subscribing Member

    Jan 15, 2014
    I agree with one run through the menu, at least that's what I did. But my problem with that is when I'm not sure what the option does. It asks me if I want fast or normal release lag. That has to be a trick question!
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  14. Ross the fiddler

    Ross the fiddler Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    When we buy a new camera now (& speaking of Olympus) it comes with lots of features & settings. While you may only want to take that photo without having to think of all these possible settings & features that just aren't what you want, the sooner you learn what each can do the better you will be at using the camera, especially if an inadvertent action happens then you should be able to identify what it was because you knew the camera inside out. :rolleyes:
  15. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    Wow, that must be the lake thru the windows, Mr. Summar. Must be a tough job for speakers to compete with that view.

    Having shot Olympus M43 since 2010, I think I could pick up a PEN F and know how to set most of the menu options.

    A new camera also means waiting for the Adobe Camera Raw updates, and maybe buying a new Lightroom Update if my version was too old to get the updates.
  16. Gee..may I offer an alternative. I can only wish that I was in the position of having a new camera to deal with. Kodak_Brownie_Hawkeye_Flash.jpg
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  17. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    There is a serious side to this idea of "out of the box" ready ;
    We know that factory default settings are rarely ideal ... why is that?
  18. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 1, 2010
    Well, the question is probably "Ideal for whom?" I would guess that the manufacturer tries to set the factory defaults to suit the lowest common denominator consumer who shoots automatic settings all the time. For Panny, probably iA or maybe P.
  19. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    I find they are ideal for snapshooters, less so for the tinkerers among us.
  20. There's no simple solution to presenting a technically complex piece of gear to the masses and having every user "get it". Yes, it would be great if there were well written manuals explaining every nuance and setting..but that's not gonna happen. It costs money to have people put this together..and where is that going to come from? It's the same way with other hobbyist products that I can think of..amateur radio in particular. Icom, Yaesu, and Kenwood all turn out expensive pieces of gear that often come with poorly written manuals. Forget the idea of ideal default settings...too many variations in personal opinion for that. For me, I knew I was going to have the M10 and I downloaded the manual weeks before buying one. And yes, there were a few things that I just didn't understand, but after asking around on a couple of different forums, I figured out what those particular settings needed to be. I also found some user guidance on personal websites that was handy. And of course, sometimes you just need to try it and see what it does. There's also the great resource of users here...usually you just gotta ask. Which leads to the community aspect of the group...your questions may lead to the answers that some other Pen F user may be looking for. Like Red Green says, "Remember, I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together."
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