Need Your Help

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by fotofotogger, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    I have been loving my epl1 for 7 mos now. However, i have noticed 2 areas that i struggle to get good photos. These are basically any indoor event (soccer tennis kids concerts church etc). Also my portraits indoor and out really suck. Blurry and out of focus seem to be the issues.

    I have the lumix 20mm, 14-42 kit lens, 40-150mm and a pentax manual 50mm 1.7.

    Not sure if its the camera -- a bad photographer -- or some of both.

    www.flickr.com/photos/snaps-alot
    I obviously havent posted my bad pics.

    Any help with equipment and techniques would be helpful. This is the first time i have considered going back to a dslr and keeping my epl1 for portable duty. I see ppl at events with dslrs and they seem to be getting good pics. All other situations using this camera i am delighted with.

    Maybe i just need better lens, maybe big pro flash ....not sure to be honest.
     
  2. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    Thx for all your help.......i assume that silence means i am in the wrong place for this question?????
     
  3. zettapixel

    zettapixel Mu-43 Veteran

    470
    Aug 12, 2010
    NY
    No, you're in the right place. Come on, sometimes posts are unnoticed, it was a holiday and everybody's talking about new cameras anyway.
    I think your experience is typical, action and low light are more difficult with :43:
    I haven't shot any indoor events, but I remember reading Canon forums about it. Everybody's advise was - get a USM lens or the focusing is too slow. :43: just doesn't have anything like that yet. Well, maybe new cameras with 45/1.8 can actually do it, preliminary tests were very good, but of course they're not available yet. Also, E-P1 has pretty large focus areas (I believe they are configurable in E-P2) and in low light AF may not be the most precise.
    Portraits is a different matter a bit, what kind of portraits do you mean, and which lens do you prefer to use?
    If you mean casual family indoor shots I had some success with 20/1.7 and 57/1.4. MF is more difficult, but when it's precise it really is precise... The lighting here is a limitation and high ISO shots are not the best with :43: (comparing to the most DSLRs). Haven't tried flash with :43: (I still have a 40d for that) but I bet a decent one would help (except with MF the subject should really be still I guess).
    Some family snaps:
    20/1.7 @ 2.2, ISO800, window + artificial light, 57/1.4 @ 2.8 (I think), ISO1600, window light, 57/1.4 @ 1.7, ISO1000, artificial light
    Sorry I couldn't be more helpful
     
  4. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    I posted some responses to a similar question here

    https://www.mu-43.com/f40/fast-zoom-lens-ep-l2-13873/

    Its difficult to fully see where your problem lies without seeing examples of your problem....especially as your examples on your flickr page seem pretty damn fine.

    K
     
  5. penfan2010

    penfan2010 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 12, 2010
    NJ, USA
    I've had success with indoor shots of stage performances, even with a relatively slow lens (i.e. max aperture F3.5), but note that it is a relatively light MF 90mm lens, and I set the ISO really high (1600 to 3200). I typically wait for a natural pause in the action. These were really not fast action events like indoor sports. All shot handheld with my E-P1.

    PB300835.JPG

    PB300942.JPG

    PB070284.JPG

    With regards to portraits, I have also had success with indoor and outdoor natural light photos, but again, subject was not moving and light levels were high enough so i could shoot with a good shutter speed.

    Indoors, ISO 200 with the Oly 14-42 kit lens on my E-PL1
    Javi_Pub. JCL_Window.

    Outdoors with an Oly OM 50mm F1.4 MF lens
    [​IMG]

    The photos you shared are really great and tack-sharp; perhaps it's a question of shooting subjects that are moving too fast or not having a high enough shutter speed/ISO? Hope this helps.
     
  6. theunartist

    theunartist Mu-43 Regular

    66
    Jul 5, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    It would be very helpful if you described what type of problems/difficulties you're having with the indoor shots...

    But from my experience, it's usually the White Balance and Lighting Conditions that are the most troublesome. if a lot of photos are looking a little on the amber/yellowish side, it's your White Balance. I have found on almost all cameras (except P&S) that AWB does not work as well for indoor shots, especially scenes where there is little or no natural light filtering in. If you shot raw or jpeg, try using indoor (Tungsten) white balance instead of Auto White Balance. If you're having problems with "blurred" images try Tv mode with a higher shutter speed and let camera adjust for the rest. Both your zoom telephotos would be considered a little "slow" to use at indoor sporting events but your 20/1.7 and M50/1.7 would be plenty fast; but are they long enough? For now, I would shoot for correct white balance and go from there...

    In portraits, I think any of the lenses you listed will work nicely with both the 20/1.7 and M50/1.7 leading the way. Focusing is most critical here and the most common mistake that leads to blurred images I've seen is the "Focus and then (re)Compose" routine. Unless you've got your system down just right, it's almost guaranteed you'll have a soft/blurred image. I would concentrate just on focusing and then go from there...

    Post some bad images, it'll help... I also use a couple of dSLR's, and these same issues are present as well :smile:
     
  7. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    Sorry - just not interested in posting my kids pics and they dont want that. Most of my probs have been with shooting from a distance (indoors)...like at my kids concerts....at their school assemblies....at the indoor tennis courts and such......
     
  8. Warren T.

    Warren T. Mu-43 Veteran

    338
    Mar 10, 2010
    San Francisco
    There are plenty of knowledgeable people here, who I'm sure are more than happy to offer advice, but if you don't give any more specific information with examples, we can't help you much more than offering very general advice. You don't have to post your kids' pics, if you have time, maybe you can try to reproduce your problems using a subject that you can post here.

    What exposure mode are you shooting at? (P, A, M, what?)
    ISO used?
    lens used?
    focus mode?
    etc...

    For indoor settings where light is low, your camera (or you) may be choosing a shutter speed that is too slow to stop objects that are in motion. Your camera's IBIS can help with camera shake, but it cannot stop subject motion. Some possible solutions are either to use a higher ISO setting or use a faster lens, use auxiliary lighting, or a combination.

    --Warren
     
  9. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    I am not looking to stop motion. Just taking pics of kids in a school concert with me quite aways away. Even the assembly shots -- kids getting awards -- no motion again -- just some indoor low light motion.
     
  10. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010
    In a kids concert I am going to assume it will not be the brightest lit space so it will likely mean keeping a high enough ISO to keep the shutter speed up enough to eliminate motion blurring caused by you or the subject moving (the rule of thumb that I learned was around 1/mm). Of the lenses I have I'd probably pick the Panasonic 45-200 to give me enough reach but in a darkened environment like an auditorium a tripod or something to keep it stable would be a good idea. To get the best shots I try and stake out the edge or try top close on one side or another. It keeps me from having to shoot over the audience. I also shoot bursts hoping that one of them will be clear because kids move around a lot.

    Now if you could show us a sample of a shot you didn't like that you shot we could probably give you something more specific.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Warren T.

    Warren T. Mu-43 Veteran

    338
    Mar 10, 2010
    San Francisco
    you don't understand what I am saying. "stop motion" does not mean shooting pictures of racing cars or jet planes. It is all relative. If your shutter speed is too slow relative to the focal length used, then ANY slight motion will be blurred. Someone turning their head, or a hand moving WILL be blurred. The longer your focal length, the higher shutter speed you'll need.

    The folks who are successfully shooting with DSLR most likely have newer models that are able to perform well at high ISO, thus allowing then to use higher shutter speeds. You can certainly try to use your EPL1 at higher ISO. You'll have slightly noisier images, but you might get some sharp ones too.
     
  12. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Northumberland
    You mentioned indoor protraits, you have a manual Pentax lens ideal for that,
    but then ;
    Oh.
    Try the 40-150 with ISO 3200 and bump up the noise reduction and contrast/saturation post processing?

    Or yes, realise there is no suitable lens for m4/3rds and either get a DSLR or an Olympus bright zoom with adapter. :(
     
  13. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    I bought a Nikon D90 today. Very fast camera. I will likely hang on to my epl-1.
     
  14. Warren T.

    Warren T. Mu-43 Veteran

    338
    Mar 10, 2010
    San Francisco
    In all sincerity, I hope you get the shots that you were missing before, with your D90. I have friends with that camera. It's really nice. I am curious to know if it solved your indoor shooting problems.

    ...but. if I had known that you were going to buy a D90 anyway (without first trying anything that was suggested or posting a sample for further analysis as suggested), I would not have wasted my time thinking about your situation and writing my replies in this thread. I only did so because you wrote your sarcastic comment because nobody noticed your original post. I only saw it this morning myself, so I thought that I would be nice and help you figure some things out.

    None of us are obligated to help anyone around here. I do this because I love photography, and I want to share what little that I know with some fellow enthusiasts. The next time someone comes around asking for help, I may decide to ignore it, like I should have ignored this one.

    I don't usually rant like this, and I apologize in advance to Amin, but for some reason this one really got to me. I think I'll just disappear for a while and just take some pictures :mad:.

    --Warren
     
  15. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    My apologies Warren if u were offended because i bought a new camera. That wasnt my intention. I love the epl1 but came to the same realization that some others have to which is the the epl1 is a great portable 2nd camera......i miss have access to all the buttons aperature, iso, wb, shutter speed, bracketing etc. Again i will never bash the epl1 and its capabilities. Thanks for your help and comments and i will assume that your advice would be good for any camera not just the epl1.
     
  16. KVG

    KVG Banned User

    May 10, 2011
    yyc(Calgary, AB)
    Kelly Gibbons
    You picked an awesome camera. I almost bought a D90 before I got the gf1. It may be more suitable for your subject. Now you have a killer team of cameras. I might borrow a D90 from one of my best friends for a trip next week(he has a fast zoom)

    Sent from my iPhone using Mu-43 App
     
  17. fotofotogger

    fotofotogger Mu-43 Regular

    29
    May 5, 2011
    Thx man -- in actuality, the D90 DEMO unit i had bought had a few more issues with it then i would have liked so i ended up buying a brand new NIKON D7000 which is just dam impressive in all respects so far. I have to say that i am loving having a button for ever major adjustment, 8000 shutter speed and 25000 iso .... I doubt i would ever take pics at anywhere close to those settings but 3200 and 6400 are very clear. The focus is so fast that you barely know its done. Moving targets and panning shots are so easy. Point and shoot. You can turn the thing on and take a picture in less than a second.
     
  18. Grinch

    Grinch Mu-43 Top Veteran

    813
    Jan 9, 2011
    Canada
    Just curious, how much did your solution cost, and is it really the new camera or is it the new lens, or both? Seems you just gave up, and went the dslr route - which I can understand if your afraid of missing moments of your family while trying to learn. I will state that this may have loved your issue, but what will you do when it happens next time...just gonna throw money at it, and what if that doesn't solve the issue. Not an attack, just looking at the long term, maybe it's not the equipment so much as how it is manipulated.
     
  19. theunartist

    theunartist Mu-43 Regular

    66
    Jul 5, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Yeah, good catch!!!

    I friend just got that Nikon, and it's pretty darn impressive, so quiet and quick to focus, he got the "Kit" 18-200 I think, just one nicely put together machine.

    Congrats!
     
  20. KVG

    KVG Banned User

    May 10, 2011
    yyc(Calgary, AB)
    Kelly Gibbons
    D7000 is baller:bravo-009: I have my friends d90 for a few days its huge, but it will serve its purpose:smile: I'm kind jealous of your combo, enjoy.