Need Advice. How To Use IBIS.

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by RussellOlaguer, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. RussellOlaguer

    RussellOlaguer Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Feb 12, 2012
    Paranaque, Philippines
    Russell Olaguer
    Good day everyone.

    I'm sorry for being ignorant about this.

    But I came from a non-IS system (nikon dslr+primes & x100).
    How do you use the IBIS in olympus cameras?

    Do you use turn it on only at night?
    Or do you use it also at daytime (sunny day)?
    Do you use it only with long focal lenght lenses?
    Or you use it also for wide lenses?

    Is it okay to turn it on all the time?
    Or there are circumstances that you need to turn it off?

    If there is already existing thread, please direct me.

    Thank you in advance for the reply.
     
  2. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Basically you turn it on if you're handholding a slow enough exposure to have some camera shake. That means the length of exposure you would turn it on for would be longer for a wide angle lens than for a tele. Some suggest exposures longer than the reciprocal of the focal length so longer than 1/45 sec for the 45mm, 1/25 sec for the 25mm, 1/12 sec for the 12mm and so on.

    Two things to remember. First, don't use it if the camera is mounted on a tripod or secure support, and don't use it for exposures you can comfortably hand hold. In both those cases it can be detrimental to the image.

    Further qualification since you've got the E-M5: the above is the standard view regarding IBIS and PEN bodies. The E-M5 uses a different IBIS system and that may make a difference in practice but I suspect the difference would be at most the equivalent of +/- one stop in the shutter speed at which you would turn IBIS on or off. I hate to be the one to tell you this but, as a very early adopter of the E-M5, you just got yourself into uncharted territory in relation to some aspects and this is one of them. Enjoy your exploring :) I wouldn't mind being in your shoes.
     
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  3. RussellOlaguer

    RussellOlaguer Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Feb 12, 2012
    Paranaque, Philippines
    Russell Olaguer
    Thank you very much.

    So in daytime I can turn the IBIS off.
    I thought IBIS should always be on.
    Thank you for your clarification.

    I was testing the IBIS in E-M5 last night and it was very good.
    I was able to handheld a shot at 1/5 second and still can get sharp (enough for my taste) photos.
    Was able to take photos of trail lights and motion blur from people walking while the background are still sharp enough. Will try to post photos later.

    Thank you again and have a nice day!
     
  4. songs2001

    songs2001 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    693
    Jul 8, 2011
    You can just leave it on. The IBIS only kicks in when doing slow exposures anyway. Just turn it off when using a tripod. It's not like in lens stabilization where the system is on all the time.
     
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  5. krugorg

    krugorg Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 18, 2011
    Minnesota USA
    There has been a great debate here and elsewhere on when and whether to shut off IBIS. One thing to keep in mind when reading some of these old threads, I think, is that IBIS performance varies model to model (and maybe even some body to body with some of the lighter PENs?).

    Anyway, I just wanted to give my own personal experience on the E-P3 and E-P2. I always shut off the IBIS on a tripod and I try to turn off the IBIS when the shutter speed gets very high, but I often forget to do this.... so, since I am mostly handheld, the IBIS is usually on. I have yet to see any image that had any, what I would call, IBIS related issues (e.g. subtle blurring, etc.). I suspect, on the other hand, that IBIS has saved a good deal of images at mid shutter speeds.
     
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  6. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011

    Documentation, please. This contradicts everything I've ever read about IBIS on the Pens, and I've not seen anything that says the OMD operates as you describe.
     
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  7. D@ne

    D@ne Mu-43 Top Veteran

    593
    Feb 23, 2012
    Toronto
    I'm not a pro by any means, but I leave it on all the time. If for any reason I notice a blur I don't think should be there in the picture I just took, I try turning it off and re-taking the same pic (if possible). I've found my e-pm1 takes consistently better pictures with the IBIS turned on, so it's usually just my lack of skill that is the problem.

    The em-5 uses a new ibis system, so I can't comment directly on your camera.
     
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  8. songs2001

    songs2001 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    693
    Jul 8, 2011
    OMD doesn't operate this way, it has full time IS even for video, so your sensor is always moving.

    On the pens, the way I understood it, the reason why you input the manual focus focal length for IBIS is that the body changes the intensity of the IS dependent on focal length, and at higher shutter speeds it shuts off or is negligible.

    Most people that have the problems seem to be having problems around 1/125 or 1/200 with IBIS on. It's not like the Nikon's VR where higher than 1/500 shutter speed is an issue.
     
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  9. RussellOlaguer

    RussellOlaguer Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Feb 12, 2012
    Paranaque, Philippines
    Russell Olaguer
    Thank you for all the replies.

    Actually, it confuses me more. Hahaha!
    I think i have to verify by myself how this 5-axis IBIS works and how it operates.

    I will try all the suggestions that were mentioned here.
     
  10. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    Morning Russell. There isn't any magic in IBIS which transforms your images into keepers. The camera has to contend with motion from two ends of the photographic process, the subject end (shooting moving objects) and the camera end (handholding a causes camera shake). With a slow shutter speed, movement from either end will create blur. Blur is not necessarily an evil thing, it all boils down to the intent of the photographer and their expectation of the final image.

    Remember, IBIS is only effective on the camera end of the blur equation not the subject end. So if the subject is moving and you are using a slow shutter, the subject will still be blurry even with IBIS on. IBIS is only effective for a few shutter speeds ('stops') under the Rule-of-Thumb (reciprocal of the lens focal length, as described above).

    Example:
    100mm lens = 1/100 of a second shutter speed (minimum shutter speed per Rule-o'-Thumb), IBIS allows you handhold to at least 1/25 without any camera blur.

    Blur
    2CBL3079.

    Sharp
    2CBL3192.

    Prior to electronic cameras, photographers compensated for camera blur by increasing shutter speed by elevating the ASA/ISO, bracing against a solid object (wall, post, car, et cetera), control breathing and squeezing the shutter release (as opposed to punching down on the button), proper camera holding technique (feet spread, elbows tucked, camera smashed against nose and face), using a pod (mono or tri) and/or lots of slow shutter practice.

    For most of us and in general practice, all IBIS does is allow you to capture an image at a higher IQ than you would have without IBIS. If you're shooting a non-moving scene at ISO 200, wide open and you're two stops under exposed to attain the Rule-o'-Thumb ... instead of elevating the ISO two stops to ISO 800, IBIS will allow you to set your shutter speed two stop under the Rule-o'-Thumb and compensate for camera shake. Which, while not magic, isn't a bad thing.

    Gary

    PS- This is just a general discussion of IBIS, there are always exceptions to the general usage. Plus, many feel that, due to the smaller sensor, that the Rule-o'-Thumb (based on FF cameras) should have a 2x multiplier ... but then lack of mirror-slap creates a less shaky camera ... et cetera ... and I'm tired of keyboarding.
    G
     
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  11. RussellOlaguer

    RussellOlaguer Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Feb 12, 2012
    Paranaque, Philippines
    Russell Olaguer
    Thank you very much for the explanation.
    I guess what I need to develop are the techniques on how to take pictures at slow shutter.
     
  12. RussellOlaguer

    RussellOlaguer Mu-43 Veteran

    303
    Feb 12, 2012
    Paranaque, Philippines
    Russell Olaguer
    I tested the IBIS in E-M5 a while ago.

    This shot was taken with 20mm, f1.7, ISO 200, 1/5 sec and HANDHELD

    I was trying to produce trail light from the car.

    6899021426_d48f4275da_b_d.
     
  13. D@ne

    D@ne Mu-43 Top Veteran

    593
    Feb 23, 2012
    Toronto
    This was my question - does "the rule" change for m43?
     
  14. songs2001

    songs2001 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    693
    Jul 8, 2011
    You can also use IBIS to pan. Not sure what it's called on the em5. There should be multiple modes. In the pen it's called mode 2.. If you use this option stabilization works in one axis so your car in the picture would appear relatively sharp while while you would still get the trail of lights and blur out the back ground.
     
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  15. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    Anything you can do to help IBIS should allow even more stops of slow shutter/Under the Rule of usability.

    I have pretty good technique and can routinely shoot a stop or two under the Rule.

    Gary

    PS- Essentially, all the shutter does is limit the moving object's travel across the sensor. A fast moving object traveling across the sensor for 1/4000 of a sec will appear sharper with less blur than the same moving object travelling across the sensor at 1/15 of a sec.
    G
     
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  16. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    I dunno, I have yet to read any definitive reports regarding this and I cannot provide any personal experience as I haven't any ยต4/3 bodies or lenses with stabilization. I do wish that all my hardware had stabilization.

    Gary
     
  17. songs2001

    songs2001 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    693
    Jul 8, 2011
    I would say it changes a bit. You would look to see what shutter speeds rangefinder users use like Leica M9 users would use. A 50 mm equiv would mean 1/30 or or 1/15 because like Gary said there is no mirror slap.

    So if using a 25mm on a m43, you can probably get away with 1/15 or 1/30 without the aid of IBIS.

    Problem with rules of thumbs of course is that people have different sized thumbs.
     
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  18. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    lol ... and some haven't any thumbs at all ... while others can best be described as "all thumbs".

    G
     
  19. D@ne

    D@ne Mu-43 Top Veteran

    593
    Feb 23, 2012
    Toronto
    bumping an old thread...would like to discuss this further (now that I own the em-5).

    the dark-side forum has is discussing this currently, but when people start referencing wikipedia, I know it's time to stop reading.

    anyway, since purchasing the em-5, I've not turned the ibis off. would I benefit from turning it off at higher shutter speeds? if so, how high are we talking (let's say, at 25mm or 45mm...my two most often used lenses)? I'm also curious about a comment on the previous page about the camera not engaging the ibis automatically when it deems it not necessary...further thoughts on this?

    ...I'm still learning. be gentle. :)

    adding a screen cap...crop on left has ibis on. both are handheld, 1/2500; f1.8; iso 1600. If someone could advise how I could properly test this, I'd appreciate it....I realize this is not the scientific approach, but at this point, IBIS looks clearer to me.

    2rc0ruo.
    (click for larger)