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Native lenses with no in-camera digital sharpening

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by glitterball, Jul 4, 2016.

  1. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    Are there any native m43 lenses that do not have in-camera digital sharpening applied to video on Panasonic Cameras (currently using a G7)?

    I have been able to get great results using adapted manual lenses, however native lenses have a horrible "video" look to them because of the sharpening that is applied automatically. I have the sharpening dialled down to the minimum in camera, but it cannot be switched off completely. This is especially a problem around fine highlights (on leaves, water etc.), where the limited dynamic range is exacerbated by the blown-out areas being sharpened.

    I love the colours from the Panasonic (compared to my Sony A7s), but the sharpening is a real issue. I don't need Auto-focus, but image stabilization would be nice!

    Alternatively, is there a hack to switch it off?
     
  2. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I think you're misunderstanding. Most m4/3 lenses are extremely sharp, even wide open, and not because of digital sharpening either. They are modern lenses designed to resolve extremely fine detail on high pixel density sensors.

    If you want a softer look, you'll need to look for legacy lenses or something like the Voigtlandera/SLR Magics, which unfortunately although native mount are still manual lenses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    Any camera body from any manufacturer that I know of applies some digital sharpening. It does not depend on the lens. If you dialed the sharpening to the minimum there should be about nothing. If you want less or none shoot RAW and process it as you like.

    Anyway by your description of the problem I wonder if this is related to sharpening. Maybe is highlight clippings, maybe noise reduction, maybe the video compression, maybe something else.

    Does this apply to video only or to pictures too? Can you post a full size sample where you see the problem?
     
  4. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    I am pretty sure that in-camera digital sharpening is applied to native lenses in video (along with distortion correction) - this is well-documented, has been admitted by manufacturers and is pretty obvious in the videos.

    I am only concerned about video - I prefer full-frame for stills.
     
  5. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    I can dial-down the sharpening, however it is never completely switched off when using native lenses for video.
     
  6. johnvanatta

    johnvanatta Mu-43 Regular

    181
    Aug 5, 2014
    Oakland, CA
    Hmm. Best I can offer is to tape over the pins, though that might kill focus completely on a FBW lens. Maybe just taping over selective pins, but that doesn't seem likely.

    I don't know of any firmware hacks like there are for Canon.

    It's probably possible in post too but I know that's not what you want to hear.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I'm fairly sure that wjiang is correct. The difference is just that native M4/3 lenses are simply sharper than the legacy lenses you're contrasting them with.

    If you're dialling down the sharpness in the movie picture profile, there is no other way to control sharpening. But it would be very strange, and probably not correct, for sharpening to be arbitrarily applied to native lenses. Note that in RAW files, digital corrections are still applied to native M4/3 lenses. However, these corrections are only for distortion, vignetting, and chromatic aberration. There is no sharpening that is applied alongside these lens profile corrections that is not 100% controlled by the JPEG or codec settings (if you are not shooting RAW).

    More than likely what you are seeing is the video bit-rate limitations resulting in codec artifacts that happen to manifest next to pixel-sharp areas with high micro-contrast.
     
  8. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    Have a look at this (old) thread: GH2 Digital Sharpening removable with hack? - Personal View Talks

    There is no doubt that Panasonic applies digital distortion correction and sharpening in-camera to native m43 lenses. It is easily proven by taping over the electronic contacts and comparing the footage.

    Again, I am only interested in Video, so RAW images don't apply.

    Does anyone know if Sigma lenses also have this correction?
     
  9. johnvanatta

    johnvanatta Mu-43 Regular

    181
    Aug 5, 2014
    Oakland, CA
    My guess is that if Panasonic treats Olympus lenses the same as Panasonic lenses, it would do so for Sigma's as well. Pretty sure that they have native distortion correction and that sigma is a member of the consortium. I don't have any to test with right now though.
     
  10. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    Thanks for the replies.

    Sadly it seems that there is no way to completely switch off digital sharpening in video with native m43 lenses.

    Which leaves me still looking for a 28mm equivalent lens.
    Unfortunately there aren't many options for a reasonable price: I used to own an EF-Mount Samyang 14mm, but the massive filter adapter made that option impractical (having to carry a rucksack all of the time put me off bringing it out). So now looking into C-Mount and even Pentax 110 options, all of which seem slightly ridiculous.
     
  11. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 on a speedbooster, covers basically every base you can think of.
     
  12. glitterball

    glitterball New to Mu-43

    6
    Jul 4, 2016
    I'll probably go for a 17mm Vivitar with a Lens Turbo II - otherwise I'd be better off getting an external recorder for my A7s (or selling that and getting an A7r II).
     
  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    There are lots of legacy 20mm/2.8 lenses that don't weigh very much and can be combined with an inexpensive focal reducer. You could get a New FD 20mm/2.8 + an RJ or no-name $90 0.71x focal reducer adapter, and you'd have a 14mm/f2 for under $300 with a total weight of 400g or so. A Pentax SMC-A or Nikon Ai 20mm/2.8 would be even lighter weight and maybe a bit smaller, but those tend to hold their value better these days.