My latest foray into FF mirrorless - and why I'm sticking with m43

Reflector

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I guess this answers our questions. Not only does it still allow access to the battery, but it also provides another 1/4-20 thread to mount a plate, strap, etc.

Kudos to Canon. This grip is the best part of the EOS RP launch IMO.

View attachment 719273

That looks pretty nice. Throw in an integral dovetail to avoid needing to secure a plate on the clamping dial and Canon would have built the nicest OEM height increasing grip...
 

Reflector

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Just guess, but I don't think it will be the camera companies that survive. I think it will be the Sony's and Panasonic's that do. Why? Because they also have a strong video/TV side to their optical/imaging endeavours, as well as having vast product range in other electronics. All of which make up modern cameras. Just my 2 cents

Most of the camera companies are pretty diversified already, Olympus' imaging division is a tiny part of the overall company and serves the other parts. Canon is huge in photography but they have some significant diversification going on as well. Nikon might be one of the most exposed of the photography companies out there but they've had other operations (firearms optics, steppers for ICs, metrology) going on as well.
 

davidzvi

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I guess this answers our questions. Not only does it still allow access to the battery, but it also provides another 1/4-20 thread to mount a plate, strap, etc.

Kudos to Canon. This grip is the best part of the EOS RP launch IMO.

View attachment 719273
Really pretty sad when you can say the add on grip is the best part of a new camera.
 

Ranger Rick

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Other than one of the G compact cameras years ago I have no experience with Canon (unlike the very negative experiences I had with Nikon), and am not in the market for FF. I also have had no interest in Canon because of their well-shown philosophy of crippling everything below the flagship model to push people there. OTOH, look at the new Fuji X-T30 just introduced It is reduced size and thus lacks space for some of the gizmos of the X-T3 (dual card slots), but the sensor and processing engine, AF, etc are the same as the X-T3 (just $500 cheaper).
 

Mike Wingate

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I had a play with the Lumix S1 for an hour or so today. Fitted with the f4 24-105 mm with a 77mm filter. The camera is HUGE. But well balanced with the lens, unlike the Canon mirrorless I tried. The S1 has all the controls just in the right places. A great viewfinder but a heavy combo. The 2 other lenses are even heavier. Great focusing, picks up faces and the an eye.
 

Mike Wingate

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There is a button on the S1 that lights up the control buttons, so you can select the correct one in low light. Amazing.
 

morphodone

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I’m often tempted to investigate other systems when I come across something that annoys me with mu43. @pdk42, I remember you mentioning that the high ISO performance was a concern when looking through family shots, and this is my main concern too. Although I know that I can get better image quality, it always comes at a cost (usually financial!).

I’ve tried Sony FF and as I was already shooting f/1.4 lenses on mu43 (thank you Sigma!), to realise the ISO improvement on FF would mean that I would also need f/1.4 lenses on FF. What would be the point in getting 2 stops of ISO performance improvement and then using a lens 2 stops slower! I wanted a 35mm lens to replace the Sigma 16, but it quickly became clear that the Sony FE lenses were either massive (1.4 G master or Sigma/Samyang) or smaller but two stops slower (Sony/Samyang f/2.8). There was also the issue of body performance when compared to Mu43, which meant looking at a £1600 A7iii to get decent AF performance. My first foray into FF resulted in a quick back track for the reasons of cost and size.

I’ve recently tried Fuji in the shape of an X-T20. I certainly noticed the resolution improvement with a 24MP sensor and the autofocus seemed more accurate than my old G9 (which forever would focus on a random thing behind the subject (usually a person) that I was aiming at). But, although the f/2 primes are nice, I’m more of an f/2.8 zoom person with a prime or two for people shots. Fuji’s strange aversion to IBIS means that their only f/2.8 standard zoom lens is only stabilised on one of their camera bodies (X-H1). There is also the issue of only having OEM AF lenses, which means that the system is pretty expensive for fast primes. So for this system cost and features (stabilisation mainly) were the reasons I back tracked on this system.

The final system that I haven’t tried is the Sony A6000 series. On the face of it, a system built upon an A6500 and the Sigma 1.4 primes would be pretty awesome. However the system doesn’t have any E mount f/2.8 lenses, so I’m left with the question of would I really notice a high ISO quality improvement if I’m stuck using f/4 Sony E series lenses when compared to f/2.8 lenses on Mu43?

So, as of now I’m back with an Olympus E-M5 Mk II (outstanding value for money) and an Olympus 12-40/2.8 (again, outstanding value for money). Will I be tempted to shop around again? Yep! Should I be? Probably not! For an amateur photographer the Mu43 system offers so much value and choice. When you factor in the size advantage, no other system matches the size + cost + versatility of mu43.

Curious about your thoughts on the Fuji X-T30 or the Sony a6400. I'm tempted by both of them but I see you are back from the X-T20 so I don't know. I see the a6400 has outstanding autofocus but of course no IBIS and not quite the selection of inexpensive lenses as µ4/3. And the X-T30 lost it's 4 way directional pad. Not sure I would be good without it. I guess there is always the X-T3.
 

davidzvi

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Curious about your thoughts on the Fuji X-T30 or the Sony a6400. I'm tempted by both of them but I see you are back from the X-T20 so I don't know. I see the a6400 has outstanding autofocus but of course no IBIS and not quite the selection of inexpensive lenses as µ4/3. And the X-T30 lost it's 4 way directional pad. Not sure I would be good without it. I guess there is always the X-T3.
Loosing the 4 way pad is a loss if you change setting with the 4 buttons. If you use it to change AF points (as I do) the joy stick is a big plus IMHO.
 
D

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Loosing the 4 way pad is a loss if you change setting with the 4 buttons. If you use it to change AF points (as I do) the joy stick is a big plus IMHO.

The XT30 inherits the swipe gestures of the X-E3 which is where the 4 way button controls used to reside. They are still there, just accessed differently.
 

Mike Wingate

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FF is like a drug. The new Canon RP is so inexpensive, then you start buying the new lenses. Downhill all the way.
 

ijm5012

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Low price bodies is the hook that gets many people.
$1,300 body, and $2,300 prime lenses :confused:

Canon's going to do the same thing with their R that they did with EF - lock people in with their lens catalog such that people can't afford to change systems.
 

davidzvi

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FF is like a drug. The new Canon RP is so inexpensive, then you start buying the new lenses. Downhill all the way.
Canon shot themselves in the foot BIG TIME IMHO. Two bodies, neither seemingly a transition for their enthusiasts or pro DSLRs, even the "R" seems more like an EOS M5 upgrade than anything resembling 6D, 7D, or even an 80D. They release 3 adapters for use with their existing glass and release/announce a bunch of high end lens. There are maybe two lenses that really make sense for their "smallest and lightest FF body". More than half of the released/announced lenses have Canon IS.

And then they announce IBIS is coming......sometime.

I wonder how many people that have purchased an "R" or "RP" are checking their receipts and store return policies.
 

Turbofrog

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Canon shot themselves in the foot BIG TIME IMHO. Two bodies, neither seemingly a transition for their enthusiasts or pro DSLRs, even the "R" seems more like an EOS M5 upgrade than anything resembling 6D, 7D, or even an 80D. They release 3 adapters for use with their existing glass and release/announce a bunch of high end lens. There are maybe two lenses that really make sense for their "smallest and lightest FF body". More than half of the released/announced lenses have Canon IS.

And then they announce IBIS is coming......sometime.

I wonder how many people that have purchased an "R" or "RP" are checking their receipts and store return policies.
I think the R is a big mistake, but the RP has it's place. I'm starting to come around to it.

It's not a high-end camera, but most people don't need high end cameras. It'll do the gooey out of focus shots better than any smaller format, it's small but has good ergonomics (at least compared to the likes of the Sony A6x00, Fuji X-Tx, or Oly E-M5 series ), and it has a flippy touchscreen (for selfies) and solid, reliable dual pixel AF.

It can't really be said to have 4K video, but who cares? It doesn't shoot more than 4 fps with AF, but who cares? It doesn't have IBIS, but aside from M4/3 (and the forlorn, partially-baked A6500 and A7 II), what competing cameras do? It doesn't have weather-sealing, or a particularly good EVF, or particularly great dynamic range but for most people in this general price class, none of that is out of the ordinary. We're spoiled by huge EVFs in mirrorless-land - the one in the RP is the same size as the OVF in the 6D, D4S, D750, D810, K1, etc...

The biggest problem is the lack of consumer oriented lenses, but the EF adapter is included in that $1300 purchase, so you can just trawl your local classifieds and it's not hard to find dozens of Canon DSLRs lenses for cheap, especially the ones that aren't "L" grade.
 
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