First of all thank you for all the work and explanations.
I will play with the new profiles and post some pictures once I get to it.
Even subtile, the changes make the pix look different.
I don't get your idea about the 2KC profiles and the 2 in Pen-F. Shouldn't the profiles for ORF in WS produce identical output to the Pen-F. BTW you can have 4 custome settings in the Pen-f when changing the C3 and C4 dial behavior to custom.
I have no idea about Porta 160, either never used it or just forgot...
Riddle: A color wheel would be Y-R-M-B-C-G
When bending the WB scales I get B-Y-M-G, what am I doing wrong?
There are two challenges with the Pen F. The first is with the Color Profile tool in WS we can adjust saturation, hue and brightness, with the Pen F only saturation. The 2nd is the WB comp scale in WS is not the same as in the Pen F.
The riddle - when you connect the ends of the two WB comp adjustments and pull it into a circle it is the same color wheel as in the color profile or creator. That means if I want to adjust the hue I can turn the WB comp color wheel left or right. To do that you need to use both negative WB comp values or positive values. (create the color wheel - enter the values & you will see)
One more comment. I think we talked about this before. Always follow this basic rule:-
- the jpeg file can be tuned endlessly in the camera
- the raw file in the camera is your digital negative
That means with WS I follow these basic rules:
- prep your raw files and save as jpeg
- use this jpeg to apply any profiles like KC25 or 64.
That means I only use raw to have an "optimised" jpeg in WS. Like in the camera, I use profiles on my jpegs...
A little test with the original M10 and the 60/2.8 mounted.
Working of JPGs this time, as I noticed some big deviations when comparing kp160vc applied to Pen-f orf or jpg.
neutral JPG ooc
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kc25
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kp160vc
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Love EM10 images. I bought one in July with 2 lenses for a bargain, will sell the body and2 lenses separately again. I never had the EM10 as I was using the EM5 at the time. I recall the EM10 had very good reviews...
This is a great example of how one can apply profiles on other Olympus cameras. I tried it with a Panasonic G9 the other day, opened a jpeg in WS, applied the profile and it did work but I had the feeling it's not as "well applied" as on an Oly... interesting.
Love the image of the Bee.
Michael, I think we getting close, personally, for me I like these 3 profiles, they now in my Pen F. Friday I will have a chance to work my camera again. We will be out in Schaffhausen... I will also try the WB comp settings to see how they compare with WS.
I have tried many products like images with these profiles. The K160VC is really strong on products. What I also find interesting with this profile is how the darks go black and the colors & contrast are strong.
I might have found a new "modus operandi" for me...
This will give me not exactly what Siegfried intended with his profiles, but I get the look I like.
I will work on my raws as I think I need to with respect to exposure, crop, dehaze...no color corrections.
Then I apply the film profile to the jpg.
(advantage: this works for my M10, M5 and F)
3 examples for kp160vc
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I might have found a new "modus operandi" for me...
This will give me not exactly what Siegfried intended with his profiles, but I get the look I like.
I will work on my raws as I think I need to with respect to exposure, crop, dehaze...no color corrections.
Then I apply the film profile to the jpg.
(advantage: this works for my M10, M5 and F)
Michael the way I look at profiles is the main reason using them is to have your own unique look. The challenge is to repeat that look consistently. I think you doing it right by adapting the profile to your liking, constantly testing it, knowing these 3 profiles strengths, and when to apply which one...
These 3 profiles are very different, the KC25 with only a subtle change but distinct color signature, the KC64 a little more powerful with a shift in the color profile, and the KP160 more powerful overall. You could make a short summary of each to help you decide when to use which for example.
I am working on one more which I think will be very interesting. The purpose of this one will be having a base to work from and tune to also create a personalized image look and feel...
Of these three images, I like the KC64 most - I like the contrasts and the blues in the skies. It also creates a feeling of space don't you think?
I really enjoy your images and the testing you do, it's very interesting - thank you...
Thanks
Honestly the kc64 is the least appealing to me.
my likes so far:
kc25: nature, flowers, landscape
kc64: city
kp160vc: one fit for all
But I might be wrong here, because I mostly worked with RAW (so focussed on raw) and recently realized that the outcome of WB changes is different.
So I may need to revisit some of my pictures and only work on JPG.
Not totally related, but the gradation slider for JPG can do much more subtile changes than the 3 settings in RAW could do.
Ok, working on JPGs shows some corners and edges in the histogram, due limited color depth, but as long as I don't notice that in my pictures could care less.
One of my next tests will be prints. I noticed odd color breaks (don't know the english term, but I guess you know what I mean) on some of my prints, usually those where I pushed tones to the limit, not visible on-screen, but not possible to derive good prints from. OK, I don't use expensive high end print services...
one more extreme example, JPG derived from neutral ORF, gradation set to AUTO.
Then applied kp160vc to the JPG and moved manual gradation control a bit up.
left neutral JPG, right kp160vc
I really like it and the histogram does not look too bad.
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one more extreme example, JPG derived from neutral ORF, gradation set to AUTO.
Then applied kp160vc to the JPG and moved manual gradation control a bit up.
- The Olympus gradation function is an interesting function. When you study the "Camera Conspiracy" youtube channel you will see the guy likes to compare different cameras in "vlogging mode". He will walk into the shade or turn to have the sun behind him, demonstrating how two different cameras react... He then presents the best camera as the one that would automatically increase the exposure on his face... All he had to do with Olympus was to set the gradation to auto... The Olympus gradation is in a way a fist version V-LOG function extending the dynamic range without having to color grade... It's a great function...
- Getting back to profiles and the K160VC - In my mind profiles is not about getting perfect image quality. The aim is to get a look you like and to consistently do that... What I find nice about the K160VC profile is the dark parts in the image turning black. Like older film roles the K160VC profile has a reduced dynamic range...
- Working in RAW - The same profile developed in WorkSpace will look different for RAW and JPEG. The simple reason is I have way more options in RAW. This again makes jpeg profiles interesting and especially in the Pen F - in a way Pen F profiles are crude and less refined... When working on RAW files one can adjust luminance and hue in the color creator. With jpeg that is not possible so I have to apply other adjustments like WB comp, curves & contrast to get a similar look...
We have one key challenge at the moment - to find the link between the Pen F white comp function and that of WorkSpace - if we find that we can get the Pen F to closer simulate what we develop in WS...
Few comments:-
- The Olympus gradation function is an interesting function. When you study the "Camera Conspiracy" youtube channel you will see the guy likes to compare different cameras in "vlogging mode". He will walk into the shade or turn to have the sun behind him, demonstrating how two different cameras react... He then presents the best camera as the one that would automatically increase the exposure on his face... All he had to do with Olympus was to set the gradation to auto... The Olympus gradation is in a way a fist version V-LOG function extending the dynamic range without having to color grade... It's a great function...
Reminds me of the current Oly and M10 discussion as well as the dpreview discussion of what cam is best in features and such.
Maybe I am a Oly fan boy, well but I was a long years Nikon supporter before...The Oly feels good in you hand and just creates wonderful pictures out of the cam only with a few settings.
At least I couldn't find that else where.
- Getting back to profiles and the K160VC - In my mind profiles is not about getting perfect image quality. The aim is to get a look you like and to consistently do that... What I find nice about the K160VC profile is the dark parts in the image turning black. Like older film roles the K160VC profile has a reduced dynamic range...
You are right. The cam should do a perfect neutral, then we can play and fill it with life. And yes, the "Blacks" are marvelous.
DR is important for manufacturers. The more the better.
But for the final image, DR reduced to what pleases or gives the desired look is preferred by me. Over many decades photographers took pictures with less advanced technologie and we still admire them or try to "copy" their look.
- Working in RAW - The same profile developed in WorkSpace will look different for RAW and JPEG. The simple reason is I have way more options in RAW. This again makes jpeg profiles interesting and especially in the Pen F - in a way Pen F profiles are crude and less refined... When working on RAW files one can adjust luminance and hue in the color creator. With jpeg that is not possible so I have to apply other adjustments like WB comp, curves & contrast to get a similar look...
We have one key challenge at the moment - to find the link between the Pen F white comp function and that of WorkSpace - if we find that we can get the Pen F to closer simulate what we develop in WS...
Agreed. Although I more and more tend to shot neutral and then apply my workflow: RAW basic adjustments and those that need the rich raw data, then convert to JPG, apply color profile, then use another tool to fit the photo for internet postings.
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moreover, your JPG profiles allow me to apply an identical look to my Pen-F and M5 pictures, and usually I have both with me, one fitted with a prime, one fitted with the 75-300. See above.
Just dropping a thought: looking at my sundown pictures, how about just shifting the whole color profile -1 in the color wheel?
Appearance stays the same, but less squeaky...
Just dropping a thought: looking at my sundown pictures, how about just shifting the whole color profile -1 in the color wheel?
Appearance stays the same, but less squeaky...
Very interesting. I am doing a similar thing on another profile I am experimenting with. I think the secret is small steps at a time, then test, evaluate, test again before making another adjustment... I love the feature on WS with 2 views of the same image and monitoring the changes as you edit...
General comment - I think you doing exactly the right thing experimenting so much. People do not see all the discussions we have in the message format. The only way to get a feel working with color is to try and experiment.
The past few weeks were pretty dull, the weather pretty much being what you expect from autumn: rainy, overcast to very cloudy, occasionally the sun was shining through for a few hours. While we had some very nice, sunny late autumn days, I had to work during all of them. Anyways, with fall coming to an end rapidly, I wanted to share a quick tip with BushmanOrig's Kodak Porta 160VC profile for the Pen-F is great for fall colors.
The first one is actually a bit cheating, taken almost a month ago.
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Lately I "rediscovered" my 12-40 Pro, although rather big and bulky, I almost forgot about the impressive minimum focusing distance.
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On that day, the sun only got through the clouds in very short periods lasting not even a minute - already too late here.
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Puddle reflection on yet another dull day.
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My most favorite local place during summer, I also enjoy autumn there!
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Lonely bench occupied by some fallen leaves.
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Due to the pandemic I stayed away from any travel at all, discovering the local nature instead.
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All pictures are straight out of the camera, some were cropped using Oly Workspace. So if you do own a Pen-F and maybe get out on a lucky sunny autumn day, I'd simply suggest giving this profile (like all the others, thanks again Siegfried for the work!) a try.
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