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mu43 giveaways - what I "dislike"

Discussion in 'Help and Feedback' started by F1L1P, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. F1L1P

    F1L1P Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 2, 2010
    Ok, ok, the title of the thread is a bit cruel, let me clarify:

    I love the idea you guys are givin so much of the knowledge here in this community, but I must say this - I don't like that much the "like me, follow me" concept of the giveaways.

    Wouldn't it be better if you organize some kind of a knowledge quiz or anything except a long thread of endless "wish me luck" posts?
    • Like Like x 3
  2. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Like me or follow me exposes this site to people in our facebook or twitter universe. We are giving exposure to our friends/followers for a chance to win free stuff. Having us take quizzes does nothing to generate revenue for this site. Liking or following could drive more traffic to the site, more chances for people to click on sponsors, more revenue to maintain and improve it. Of course, we can also donate to sponsor the site, as well.

    So, the giveaways actually help drive up revenue for the site, so we can all talk more about m43! It's a good thing!
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Hikari

    Hikari Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2010
    That also biases the quiz toward the most knowledgeable. They are most likely the group that will have plenty of gear and would buy what they don't have. This way everyone has a shot at getting something new. Think of this as a lottery rather then Jeopardy.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It's true that revenue is necessary to maintain and improve the site, and literally all the site revenue has gone into that. However, the main reason for the promotional giveaways is not to generate revenue but rather to help create exposure for the site so more Micro 4/3 users will find us here, get involved, and make the site better for all of us to enjoy.

    In fact, the camera and lens giveaways have cost me much more than the resulting traffic has generated in revenue, but if they help get the word about this place to even a few great members, it will be well worth it. I'll give an example: I paid for a one month ad for this site at The Online Photographer, and that's how BBW found Mu-43.com. The ad wasn't cheap, but BB's contributions as a member and as a Super Mod here were priceless.
    • Like Like x 6
  5. leonberdi

    leonberdi Mu-43 Regular

    Apr 15, 2011
    As much as I love the community here and this site (indeed I am a site supporter) I haven't participated yet in a giveaway because I like to keep any sort of advertisement free from my online profiles (as benign and small scale as they may be). If Facebook turned into a place where I was constantly informed about my friends' interests in stores, goods, even websites I would quickly lose interest in using such social websites.

    That being said, the idea of the giveaways is great. Keep them up. It seems like lots of people are enjoying them and the end result (getting more people to this website) is working.

    If the giveaways could involve another form of promotion that was not so blatant, I would be on board. For example, post a photograph online on Flickr or another image sharing website where the subject is something like "Submission for www:mu-43.com Giveaway" This would not necessarily be a contest (each online photograph would be a "ballot" the same way the "likes" work) and it still acts as a promotion. I could post a link to the photograph online, and if someone is interested they can view it and see the promotion. If they choose to ignore the image, so be it.
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Mu-43 Regular

    Jun 9, 2011
    Houston, TX
    The "like me" and "follow me" part of these giveaways aren't much of a hassle. They don't fill your friends timelines with ads or other information about the site at all. On Facebook it will just show that you like this page and will only add articles to your timeline, if you choose to share it with your friends is up to you.
    And on Twitter, it will just show that you follow the site. Nothing more. If you want to retweet the tweets from the forums twitter account to your followers is also up to you. They aren't forcing you to retweet messages like other online forums do with their contests.
    The contests here are actually the easiest ones to be a part of.
  7. linkedit

    linkedit Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 6, 2010
    New Jersey, USA
    This is how websites do giveaways. likes on facebook, followers on twitter etc all drive traffic to the site.

    Amin can do as many of these giveaways as he likes. If the result is increased revenue then we all benefit.
  8. Luke

    Luke Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 30, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    I understand the idea for the giveaways and think it's a great idea. But I also like leonberdi's idea to search for other ideas. I don't use social media, so I won't be re-tweeting something or "liking" it, but I also understand the need to have some sort of tangible promotional aspect to reward with the goodies.

    I certainly don't have an answer, but I do think the repetitious nature of the reward and promotion is not going to work too much longer to draw in new faces.

    I don't know what other quantifiable ways there would be to spread the mu43 gospel, but I think it would be good for others to offer any ideas.
  9. Streetshooter

    Streetshooter Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    Phila, Pa USA
    I think this is a good thing for the membership. I also think that an open lottery is best as all members stand on equal ground.
    It's also nice to see companies like Nik etc showing an interest in the group here. That's a huge statement.
    It's the members here that make the site and keep it alive. The Admin & Mod teams doing a contest is a way of saying thank you for your support.

    Keep up the good work everyone.
  10. f6cvalkyrie

    f6cvalkyrie Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 12, 2010
    Brussels, Belgium
    I don't participate in these giveaways/lotteries because I can't ! I'm living in Belgium and that's one of the countries that are excluded by Facebook :frown:

    But I fully understand the necessity of finance to maintain this site ! If these lotteries can help the owners/moderators find the money so much needed, so be it !

    On a less positive note, have a look at what's going on with Nikonians :eek: :frown::mad: 

    Have a nice day,

    PS : lotteries and quizzes are NOT incompatible. As lotteries and photo contests are not incompatible. So, maybe, we could organize something ?
    I'll be glad to assist !
  11. Grinch

    Grinch Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jan 9, 2011
    If this is the case, it seems that the camera give away went to a non m43 user until you gave them a camera, and if they don't contribute or use the forum then this was a waste of the forums resources, wouldn't you say. I'm not against promoting the forum, but shouldn't resources be used to promote growth of the community, instead of rewarding someone for joining? I would prefer if you rewarded those who use the forum because they use m43, not because they can get stuff. Maybe if you only gave components that would be useful to someone who already is a m43 user, that would help the community more than allowing for the opportunistic " I can get something for nothing" most of the entrants are 1 post, and do you hear from them again? I don't see how this helps those who do use,promote, and contribute. I'd feel better if I knew that it was actually helping the community, not just adding one time users. Hopefully, a way to promote retaining users that help the forum can be found.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    There are now more commercial enterprises backing this forum who require advertising exposure ... and more and more of it, hence this wish for internet networking and other threads asking to introduce new members. Not quality forum users, just NEW members, the more the merrier.

    You remember how DPReview suddenly became polluted with inappropriate animated advertising? Same thing. Give it a moment :eek: 
  13. Iansky

    Iansky Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Dec 26, 2009
    The Cotswolds, UK
    On the other hand, if the non forum member who wins a mu43rd camera then joins the forum and extolls the virtues of this site to others, not only do we gain another member, but we also stand to bring others into the fold.

    We should not limit these to just forum members - I do wonder just how many existing forum members actually participate in these especially if the prize is an item they already own?

    Keep it as it is - it helps spread the word as well as bring in revenue so that Amin does not have to dip into his pocket unfairly.

    This site definately stands out from the crowd for it's knowledge base, enthusiasm and willingness of members to share - it also, thanks to it's membership and moderators does not suffer fools gladly (by that I mean the proverbial "Trolls").

    We should be grateful for what we have - we are the lucky ones!
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    I can certainly see all sides to this.

    When I joined the forum over a year and a half ago, I joined because I knew that there was both valuable knowledge in both gear and photography that I could gain. If I win a piece of gear because I am a member of the forum, thats a bonus.

    I don't have twitter or facebook, so I have no way of gaining forum members in that manner. What I have done is on other photography and hobby sites I visit is recommend the forum, by word of mouth. While this doesn't have the exposure that I'm sure facebook or twitter has, it is more of a personal touch.

    I don't know exactly how the "like" through facebook works. I guess I can ask my better half since she uses facebook a good bit.

    My few thoughts.

    1. If a camera kit goes to a non-forum member, this I think is a good thing. More than likely, the non-forum member will become a forum member to learn more about the camera. They'll also recommend the forum for not just gear, but for the value in photography is as well. If a forum member wins a kit, they will continue to support the forum, possibly even more.

    2. If the site is giving a lens away, like in the case of the new giveaway, this is different. First, the non-forum member is going to either have to be interested in the system even if they don't have a kit, or already has a kit and could use the lens. In the latter case, they will probably stay with the forum because they might have not realized that the site even existed. If a forum member already has a kit but doesn't have the lens thats being given away, they will value the chance to get one, and if they already have the lens, they could potentially sell it to a forum member who might be interested. All in all, it is a win-win situation.

    As a long time forum member, I don't feel slighted in the least about a non-forum member winning. It promotes the site.

    Amin has graciously donated his time and money to set up these giveaways. Amin already explained why he is doing this. We also have to think though, that it is a gamble for him too, that he might not see the return(both in revenue from ads and general forum promotion) on his investment.

    On a slightly different note, I'd also like to say that there are other ways to promote the site, especially financially. I urge forum members to purchase though the sponsor links their equipment or donate through paypal.

    It is about the forrest in end, not the trees.
    • Like Like x 5
  15. John M Flores

    John M Flores Super Moderator

    Jan 7, 2011
    In marketing speak, sweepstakes do a good job of creating awareness and exposure, but they also tend to draw a lot of people just interested in winning something. At the end of the day, all marketing programs have waste - impressions and exposure that didn't lead to anything of value to the marketer - it's the nature of the beast.
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    No, here's how I imagine it working: Jeff learns about the contest from the 1001 Noisy Cameras blog and enters it. In doing so, Jeff likes us on Facebook. Jeff's friend Ann sees that Jeff liked Mu-43.com and decides to check out the site to see what it's about. Ann enjoys photography and after lurking here for a bit decides to buy a MFT camera. She then registers as a member, asks questions, and subsequently ends up contributing a lot to our community. Jeff had a better than 1 in 1000 chance to win a great camera (not bad odds for the effort involved), which was a nice opportunity for him, and he helped us get a great member. That seems fair to me.
    • Like Like x 2
  17. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    It's about making the broader audience aware of mu-43. Of course, that's good and bad, too, depending on what you are looking for -- a small community of true believers, or a large mass of people, and "other" people seem to have opinions!!!

    If you want the small community, though, then you need to help out -- donate, support, write interesting things, help moderate, etc. etc.

    If you just want a place to post, then you need a larger crowd to support the efforts to keep it up and running.

    We can't expect Amin to run this all through the kindness of his heart (and wallet!), regardless of which way the site goes!

    (just my opinion, nothing more)
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Spaceghost33

    Spaceghost33 Mu-43 Veteran

    Feb 23, 2010
    Chicago, IL
    Christopher Stelter
    I fully support the giveaways. Whether you like FB or not, it's become a fact of life. It's a great tool for expanding our small universe. To all the admins, keep up the good work. This site is solely responsible for me being involved with M4/3. Thank you.
  19. Brian Mosley

    Brian Mosley Administrator Emeritus

    Dec 15, 2009
    I think that any initiative which raises the profile of this forum on the web - making it easier to discover for m4/3rds users, without significantly impacting on the style or content of the site is absolutely fine... no-one is forced to participate in the promotions.

    The sooner the site becomes self-financing, rather than a long term risky investment for Amin the better imho.

    Rather than 'what I dislike' about this or that initiative, how about 'here's an idea for promoting our community'

    Kind Regards

    • Like Like x 2
  20. snkenai

    snkenai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 5, 2010
    There is some disadvantage to the site becoming "ever larger". You eventually lose that "family" atmosphere. Which I have very much enjoyed. Pentaxforums comes to mind. I use to greatly enjoy dropping in. Now when I drop by I feel like I (a country hick) just stepped off the bus is down town NY. SOOO many people.

    I do understand the need for new blood and growth. Without it you die slowly. So do what needs doing, and do it well!

    Thank all who work at keeping this community vibrant.
    • Like Like x 3
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