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moving kids

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by kurt1968, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. kurt1968

    kurt1968 Mu-43 Regular

    109
    Oct 30, 2012
    hi wanted your opinion

    i do not want to miss out on good shots of my playing kids;
    with my canon S95 i have blurred pics , or am far too late because slow AF.
    I was looking at a m43 cam with a zuiko 45mm f1.8.
    Would this be fast enough to capture moving objects??
    I am afraid of getting disappointed and ending up with pretty much thesame as the S95.
    On the other hand , i might keep the S95 as an always with me cam , and add a Pentax K-R for action shots
    What do you think guys ?
     
  2. ill_dawg

    ill_dawg Mu-43 Veteran

    201
    Aug 26, 2010
    Re: moving kids

    I've had good results with my om-d and 45/1.8, I think it's a great combo. If you're shooting outside in good light, you should do just fine. Indoors, you might want to add a bounced flash just to keep the shutter speeds up without bumping up the iso.

    Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk HD
     
  3. kurt1968

    kurt1968 Mu-43 Regular

    109
    Oct 30, 2012
  4. WasOM3user

    WasOM3user Mu-43 Veteran

    458
    Oct 20, 2012
    Lancashire, UK
    Paul
    I've had good results indoors with children in poor lighting by allowing the ISO up to 3200 and accepting I am not going to blow them up to poster size.

    OMD + IBIS + 45mm is a staggeringly good combo - I have to soften images as ladies don't like to see exactly what is there!!
     
  5. kurt1968

    kurt1968 Mu-43 Regular

    109
    Oct 30, 2012
    ok but om-d is out of reach for me


     
  6. WasOM3user

    WasOM3user Mu-43 Veteran

    458
    Oct 20, 2012
    Lancashire, UK
    Paul
    Any G3 + 45mm users out there to comment on AF performance for the combination?
     
  7. Daveart

    Daveart New to Mu-43

    Hi with the EM5 you can go upto 6400 iso and get A3 sized prints without noise no problem, The trouble with using flash you get harsh lighting and hard ugly shadows, just put your iso on auto upto 6400 and in shutter priority at around 1/250 to 1/400 and you should be fine.

    Dave
     
  8. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    There are a couple of ways to skin a cat here.

    There tends to be two issues with blurred pics of kids in motion: 1) slow shutter speed, and 2) slow auto focus.

    Any idea how fast your shutter speeds have been? The pic you posted is at 1/100 second. Notice his feet are blurry. The rest of his body is mainly stationary. 1/100 is a minimum you need to capture quick kids. I would actually want to get a bit faster than that, if possible. Outdoors it shouldn't be an issue. You didn't say, but are your pictures mainly inside?

    Are you shooting indoors at the long end of the S95's zoom? If so, that's f/4.5. The 45/1.8 can be at f/1.8 at the long end. That's about 2 2/3 stop faster, or more than 4X the light let in. You can also add more light with flash.

    Both of the items above impact shutter speed.

    Your other issue is auto focus speed. The 45/1.8 is likely much faster to focus than an S95. I've not had an S95, but I've used other Canon powershots. The Pentax is likely to AF just as fast as the 45mm lens, but it can also C-AF better than m43. But the issue with shutter speed still remains regardless of which camera you are talking about. In either case, you need fast lenses and good lighting and maybe flash.

    If you post some examples with EXIF intact (or list the shutter speeds and ISO and aperture) we can help diagnose. My opinion is you can do it with m43 and the 45mm lens. You might be slightly happier with a DSLR under certain circumstances, but you are also adding extra bulk and weight.
     
  9. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    You only get harsh flash lighting if you use head-on flash. Use a tilt/swivel head, and learn to bounce flash, and the results are beautiful. The one thing about m43 for me, is that many of the cameras are not really big enough to handle a serious flash well. The Panny GH series, G3 and G5 and OMD could, but the Pens and the other Pannys would struggle, both in terms of size and lacking a VF, to handle flash super well. Ned might use flash on Pens, so maybe he could comment further, if he's reading this.
     
  10. kurt1968

    kurt1968 Mu-43 Regular

    109
    Oct 30, 2012
    @ wt21

    the link to the pic i posted is not mine

    i don't use zoom in order to keep the f2.0
    to keep costs within limits , i could buy a secondhand e-pl1 , e-pm1 + 45mm
    or maybe what a few months for a used e-pm2 ............
     
  11. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    For moving kids no "point and shoots" a la the S95 will suffice. Older m4/3s like E-PL1 or E-PM1 with fast lens (45/1.8 is very good) can work. E-M5 is better. DSLR with fast glass is better still.

    I personally like the idea of having an S95 for carry everywhere convenience + a DSLR for getting the shots you need. Or I like the idea of investing all that in to an m4/3s kit. It really depends what your overall priorities are though.

    On a cost basis, you can pick up a used Canon 40D, which is a great action cam, for $300 and a new Sigma 30/1.4 for $290 or a used Canon 85/1.8 or 50/1.4 for $300. So basically a camera + fast prime for around $600. If you go with an E-PL1 or M1 + 45/1.8, used, you will be closer to $400. If the $600 is workable I think it would be a no-brainer to go with the DSRL.

    m4/3s can certainly capture fast moving kids, but it won't be quite as easy and your keeper rate will not be quite as high vs a DSLR.
     
  12. woof

    woof Mu-43 Top Veteran

    511
    Oct 18, 2011
    The present.
    Yes... no... maybe. This picture could have been taken with any of the cameras you mentioned. To belabor the point, it is not the camera, it is the photographer...

    The issue here is that you need to understand the way your camera works. That means a fundamental understanding of shutter speed / aperture / ISO and the way they interact, ie: all thing equal, a higher shutter speed means you generally need a larger aperture which can in turn be compensated for by higher film speed (ISO)... to a point where IQ may suffer... and all combinations thereof...

    So, if you want to freeze motion, you need a higher shutter speed. I'll bet you could have done this with the Canon. You can do it with Mu43, and you can do it with the Pentax.

    The bottom line is YOU have to do it.

    BTW, nice photo. It is sharp. Parts are blurred. I like the blur in this case. It is an action shot. The movement adds to the composition in this case. MHO

    Kind regards,

    woof!
     
  13. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Hi Kurt,

    Yes, I knew the link was not yours, but if you post examples of your shots, we can better diagnose the issue.

    EPM1 will have much faster auto focus than the EPL1. EPM2 will have as fast auto focus as the EPM1 and will have better high ISO, allowing you to increase shutter speeds.
     
  14. Fmrvette

    Fmrvette This Space For Rent

    May 26, 2012
    Detroit, Michigan
    Jim
    +1

    I abandoned DSLR's only after I was sure that I wouldn't be photographing the grandkids playing sports anymore. It isn't that :43: can't do it - but the DSLR is better at it.

    Used Canikons with fast primes are relatively inexpensive these days. I got very good results with a Nikon 35mm f1.8 and they're going used for @ $140 U.S. A D3100 body refurbished is going for $360 U.S. on B&H.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=nikon+d3100&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ta&usedSearch=1

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800932752-USE/nikon_2183_af_s_nikkor_35mm_f_1_8g.html

    Of course YMMV; there are many examples on this forum showing moving objects in action taken with :43: gear.

    Regards,

    Jim
     
  15. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Are we talking indoor, outdoor, sports, play time, toddlers, teens? Without these answers we may all be shooting in the dark (yes intentional bad as it is).

    That said Cameta has refurbished E-PM1's with kit lens for 199 and E-PL3's for 299. If we are talking young kids and shooting at low levels the tilt screen on the E-PL3 would be a big plus.

    Fast enough? Well it's not my son but (full speed in nothing more than auto sports mode on an E-PM1):
    52%20Week%20Project%20-%20Week%202%20-%201-S.
    52%20Week%20Project%20-%20Week%202%20-%202-S.
     
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  16. kurt1968

    kurt1968 Mu-43 Regular

    109
    Oct 30, 2012
    Ok i think i know enough
    i once tested a epl3 in the shop , wow , even indoors AF was very quick
    but i havent seen any secondhand
    btw what do you guys mean with refurbished ??
     
  17. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
  18. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    My E-PM1 is a refurb. I also picked up a D90 from them years ago that was refurb.

    What was great about Cameta was there was a problem with the D90. I called them up. They said no problem we'll send you another and a return shipping sticker. Done.
     
  19. Fmrvette

    Fmrvette This Space For Rent

    May 26, 2012
    Detroit, Michigan
    Jim
    Factory-Refurbished Photo Gear | B&H Photo Video Pro Audio

    I've ordered refurb'd Nikon gear from B&H and was completely satisfied.

    The lacrosse shots above are good examples of what can be done with :43: gear :2thumbs:.

    However, for capturing the runner coming home from third base on a suicide squeeze I'd prefer a Nikon D300 with a grip full of AA cells and a 70-200 f2.8 lens :biggrin:. 8 frames per second and the camera can maintain focus from the first shot to the last. Marvelous gear. Also 10 pounds carry weight and around $3000 on hoof :eek:. (The point being, and it's simply my personal view not gospel, is that DSLR's are better at action shots than :43: gear).

    Post some pics when you make a decision!

    Regards,

    Jim