More statements from JIP

pdk42

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I seem to remember hearing something when the news broke out months ago about the optical experts moving into the Olympus medical division. If so, it's to wonder how that would affect the production of current lenses, and obviously impact future ones. Perhaps they may externalise fully into third party manufactures like Sigma, who I believe already designed and manufacture the 75mm 1.8 optical elements.
The loss of engineering skills will surely have a massive impact on JIP's abilities to design new products. I can see them continuing to manufacture at least part of the current range, but innovating with new lenses and cameras must surely have a big question mark hanging over it.
 

retiredfromlife

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I seem to remember hearing something when the news broke out months ago about the optical experts moving into the Olympus medical division. If so, it's to wonder how that would affect the production of current lenses, and obviously impact future ones. Perhaps they may externalise fully into third party manufactures like Sigma, who I believe already designed and manufacture the 75mm 1.8 optical elements.
Yes I remember that rumor about the optical experts moving into the Olympus medical division. There were a few similar rumors. They indicated a few times that camera development was hand in hand with the medical division. Like the EM1x grip being designed by an award winning endoscope designer.
 

Mike Wingate

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This rumour needs lots of replies. Reply with a well known phrase including the two words ‘stick’ and ‘arse’. Foreign idioms welcomed.
 
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At the same time, would it be impossible for OM-D to task Olympus Medical with optical designs? I mean if their experts really would've stayed with Olympus (which I can understand), it's not like they just lost all their knowledge and expertise for lenses all of a sudden. If OM-D is willing to pay money to outsource R&D anyways, it would be up for Olympus to either accept or reject. Besides Sigma is not a bad choice either, the 75mm 1.8 is a great lens, Sigma has been producing some very well received lenses for other systems and the latest Olympus 100-400 also pretty much seems to be a Sigma design too.
Personally I only recently found out the 75mm 1.8 has been designed by Sigma, but that hasn't changed my favorable opinion of this great lens by a single bit - at least it kind of shows why this lens doesn't have the MF clutch.
 

RS86

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The loss of engineering skills will surely have a massive impact on JIP's abilities to design new products. I can see them continuing to manufacture at least part of the current range, but innovating with new lenses and cameras must surely have a big question mark hanging over it.
Is this loss of engineering skills a fact or a rumour?

"On September 30, 2020, Olympus signed a Definitive Agreement with Japan Industrial Partners, Inc. (JIP) regarding the transfer of the Olympus Imaging business.

Under the agreement, Olympus will transfer 95% of the shares of a new imaging company to JIP on January 1, 2021. Our new company name, OM Digital Solutions Corporation, will honor the inspiring legacy of Yoshihisa Maitani and Olympus Maitani cameras.

The agreement includes all R&D and manufacturing facilities currently dedicated to the Imaging business. This will ensure that OM Digital Solutions will continue to provide high-quality products and cutting-edge innovations to our customers."

https://getolympus.com/jip
 

pdk42

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Is this loss of engineering skills a fact or a rumour?

"On September 30, 2020, Olympus signed a Definitive Agreement with Japan Industrial Partners, Inc. (JIP) regarding the transfer of the Olympus Imaging business.

Under the agreement, Olympus will transfer 95% of the shares of a new imaging company to JIP on January 1, 2021. Our new company name, OM Digital Solutions Corporation, will honor the inspiring legacy of Yoshihisa Maitani and Olympus Maitani cameras.

The agreement includes all R&D and manufacturing facilities currently dedicated to the Imaging business. This will ensure that OM Digital Solutions will continue to provide high-quality products and cutting-edge innovations to our customers."

https://getolympus.com/jip
Yes, I agree my statement was somewhat, shall we say, unfounded! I guess I was reacting to various rumours I'd heard that the key engineers in the Imaging business were moving over the Medical business - but I have no referenceable source so probably best to consider it hearsay only.
 

BDR-529

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The thing that surprised me was that upon researching FF cameras (bought a Z6) entry level FF cameras including the very recently released Canon R6 @ £2500 start at just 20mp and several have ‘only‘ 24mp
I'm not surprised at all because all the hype around 47MP+ which marketing teams promoted as the new standard was just hype and died off as fast as it started.

Even in this forum nobody has complained about MFT having "only" 20MP lately because this is pretty much the amount of pixels 90% of ILC owners ever need regardless of physical size of the sensor. As long as you can fill almost the whole image area with your subject, this is enough for Times Square-sized prints.

No matter whether you are a professional photographer or just a point & shoot novice, approximately 0,000000000001% of views are by pixel-peepers who have access to original RAW image which they study in front of a colour calibrated 8k monitor. Since 99,9% of all images produced today are viewed on over-saturated 6'' smartphone OLED screens or in extreme cases 15'' laptops, anyting above 4k is pretty pointless. Nobody will ever see any difference as far as number of pixels is concerned.

More important than the number of pixels, is how good they are in terms of noise, dynamic range etc and the larger the physical size, the better they are. This is very much true even in FF world where these high-end 47MP cameras produce visibly noisier images than your humble Z6 under same conditions (in terms of noise, Z6 is actually as good as they get today). 24MP is the de facto standard even in FF because it's the optimal compromise between number of pixel and their physical size.
 
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nstelemark

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I'm not surprised at all because all the hype around 47MP+ which marketing teams promoted as the new standard was just hype and died off as fast as it started.
The biggest problem with 47MP is the file sizes, and processing. HHR really works for me because I get both in essence, high MP when I need it (with limits of course) and decent file sizes the rest of the time.
 

pake

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I seem to remember hearing something when the news broke out months ago about the optical experts moving into the Olympus medical division. If so, it's to wonder how that would affect the production of current lenses, and obviously impact future ones. Perhaps they may externalise fully into third party manufactures like Sigma, who I believe already designed and manufacture the 75mm 1.8 optical elements.
That doesn't sound THAT bad IMO. Not ideal, but not bad either.

The biggest problem with 47MP is the file sizes, and processing. HHR really works for me because I get both in essence, high MP when I need it (with limits of course) and decent file sizes the rest of the time.
Exactly! I don't want ALL my files to be 47MP. H*** no! But I do want a 40-80MP photo every now and then and that's why the HiRes is far better option here (even though it's not for every occasion - yet). Hopefully the new Sony sensor can halve (or more!) the readout time for HiRes photos. Let's say a 40MP photo with 1/500 s total exposure time would be sufficient for 95% cases for me.
 
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SilverShutter

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That doesn't sound THAT bad IMO. Not ideal, but not bad either.


Exactly! I don't want ALL my files to be 47MP. H*** no! But I do want a 40-80MP photo every now and then and that's why the HiRes is far better option here (even though it's not for every occasion - yet). Hopefully the new Sony sensor can halve (or more!) the readout time for HiRes photos. Let's say a 40MP photo with 1/500 s total exposure time would be sufficient for 95% cases for me.
I think its logical to assume that high-res modes will become exceedingly fast in the coming years. It's only a matter of better and more powerful in-camera processors, particularly with global shutters and so on lurking in the horizon too.
 

BDR-529

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I think its logical to assume that high-res modes will become exceedingly fast in the coming years. It's only a matter of better and more powerful in-camera processors, particularly with global shutters and so on lurking in the horizon too.
This is very true but at the same time it's also true that 24MP sensor which uses the same technology has better low light performance and dynamic range and technology that can read 47 megapixels faster than today, can read 24MP even faster.

Just look at what has already happened in smartphones: a couple of years ago there was a race to highest megapixel count which ended up (if I remember correctly) with over 100MP sensors and 42MP was already mid-range.

Unfortunately customers realized almost immediately that more megapixels does not mean better pictures. On the contrary: 42MP IQ sucks when compared to good 12MP sensor and today even latest IPhone 12 is using 2-3*12MP sensors, LiDAR and whatnot to create absolutely stunning images with the help of AI.

Megapixels became totally irrelevant after customers started to demand high IQ because fact is that human vision will pretty much max out at 8k and even then anyone older than 12 needs a 100'' TV 2,5 meters away from their coach to see any difference between 4k and 8k. As long as images are viewed on 6'' smartphone screen, nobody will notice any difference between 2MP and 47MP pictures.

I believe that 24MP will become the de facto standard for mirrorless FF simply because it's the best compromize between number of pixels and the pysical size of photosite which dictates their quality.
 

Tapper

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Tell that to landscape photographers. :roflmao:
I doubt every landscape photographer desires more than 20 - 24 mp. Depends what they do with the images and how large they intend to print. Serious pros who sell very large prints, I'm sure they will happily buy a high resolution FF or medium format camera. But not everyone needs that or can justify it.
 

RS86

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I found this interesting relating to JIP sale. It seems Nikon is doing streamlining, which is what JIP sale will also result to. It seems Nikon believes the streamlining can keep them in business, which is likely what JIP thinks also.

"Nikon will cut more than 2,000 workers outside of Japan by March of 2022 as well as shift some of its production from its factory in the Miyagi province of Japan to Thailand."

...

"You can read the entire breakdown of Nikon’s numbers here, but the takeaway is that its sales numbers continue to be grim.

It’s important to fit the entire company in a way that is commensurate with the scale of sales,” Nikon President Toshikazu Umatate said, referencing the changes. Umatate said the company would reduce the number of overseas employees to just under 60% of the level as of the fiscal year ended March 31, 2017. It would also maintain overseas factories, but reduce production personnel according to sales scale and would also reduce the number of staff by reorganizing.

The goal of the changes would be to reduce the company’s operating costs by more than 80 billion yen (~$758,708,000).

In another article on Nikkei, Nikon states that cameras will continue to be the core of its business, and while that market continues to shrink, Nikon will focus its efforts on who it believes will purchase them: professionals and hobbyists.

It will be a future task to be able to develop professionals and hobbyists while advancing structural reforms.”"

https://petapixel.com/2020/11/09/ne...al-workforce-transfer-production-to-thailand/
 

BDR-529

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Hard to know what to believe, but like Olympus I hope they stay in business.
Unlike Olympus, Nikon has no option.

Nearly 40% of Nikon revenue comes from Imaging Products Business unit whereas all consumer products made only 8% of Olympus revenue which rendered the whole camera business nothing more than a very expensive hobby they kept for historical reasons.

Even Canon is in a position where they could sell the whole camera business to first unsuspecting passer-by for nominal ¥10 because the entire imaging business unit is only 22% of total revenue but this number includes such cash cows as consumer and professional printers and scanners. Just like Panasonic, Canon has all professional broadcast/cinema cameras and camcorders under Industrial Business Unit which is selling entirely different products to different channels at different profit margins.

Nikon is the only true "camera manufacturer" left in the ILC business in the sense that the entire company will end belly up if they fail to make it big in the mirrorless FF world.
 

Tapper

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Nikon is the only true "camera manufacturer" left in the ILC business in the sense that the entire company will end belly up if they fail to make it big in the mirrorless FF world.
Man, that makes me want to go buy a Nikon Z and some lenses just to help Nikon out. But, seriously, the Z system does seem pretty nice...
 

pake

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I looked at the original ones and the ergonomics were very nice, and the size ok as well, but the lenses for what i want are too large.
Yep. It seems the full frame bodies are getting smaller & lighter and gaining IQ while the m4/3 ones are getting bigger and IQ stays the same BUT... The lenses. The fact is that the lenses still are way too big for me to even consider switching.

I just read about the Canon RF 70-200mm f/4 that was praised for being lightweight at ~700 grams. Well, the Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 still weights half of that and is internal focusing - unlike the Canon. And my Oly 40-150mm has way more reach at that weight + has the brilliant lens hood and manual focus clutch. Yeah... You need to do better Canon to gain my interest. And while on the topic... Canon might have the smallest lenses for FFs but the bodies are way too big (and the burst speeds are weak).
 

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