More speculation on the future of M43

Bidkev

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Well if he's right a dying format means reduced used prices and perhaps then I would buy back into this combo. I certainly wouldn't buy back into the Canon 6D and 100-400 irrespective of image quality even with a price reduction. My arms wouldn't take it!

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Bushboy

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I’m like so what, perfectly happy with the gear as it is.
It’s amazing equipment. Don’t tell anyone.....
 

ivanbae07

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I let my nx300 go with reluctance. Sad that the Pentax partnership expired before they could get copies of that 20Mpx PDAF-able sensor, let alone the 28Mpx shooting star.
if i'm not mistaken, all of pentax's labelled af called savox was a pdaf type, but not the great one like that from SoCaNi, or FuOl...
Yes, M43 can’t do bokeh and you can’t get good images with the system :-S . Idiotic article and maybe the whiners should focus on their photography, rather than repeating the same tired old song, which really is just a mask on their inabilities. M43 is great, I use a Sony A1 as well, but the Olympus colours, Olympus feathered bokeh and Panasonic Leica bokeh ( which means quality, not quantity ) are stunning. Throw in all the ACTUALLY useful tools like Live Composite, Pro Capture, ND, IBIS, weather sealing and it is the most complete system, bar none.
fea, what?
lei qua qua, what?
complete? oh, well. no rectilinear 9mm to 13mm efl, no prime rectilinear uwa lens with af, no ts / pc lens, the never comin home 100mm makro that some fans mad about, why limiting with 25-50mm and not with the liberating 35-70mm, and so on...

alas, any modern camera and lens is good, at the good and experienced hands, but limit is still a limit...
 
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fsi22

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fea, what?
lei qua qua, what?
complete? oh, well. no 9mm to 13mm efl, no prime rectilinear uwa lens with af, no ts / pc lens, the never comin home 100mm makro that some fans mad about, why limiting with 25-50mm and not with the liberating 35-70mm, and so on...

alas, any modern camera and lens is good, at the good and experienced hands, but limit is still a limit...

Sorry, I’m not sure what those 2 linked images are meant to imply, other than lack of skill or understanding.

Yes, those lenses don’t exist amongst the many other truly excellent lenses that cover MANY focal lengths, but if those focal lengths are make or break, then the individual should move on to the system that does work, rather than whinging and moaning. Be a little proactive.

Yes, there are limits to every system. Every single system has it’s pros and cons. No sane person grabs a screwdriver, and then complains that they can’t hammer a nail in. Again, all this whining, and excuses, to deflect.
 

ivanbae07

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Sorry, I’m not sure what those 2 linked images are meant to imply, other than lack of skill or understanding.

Yes, those lenses don’t exist amongst the many other truly excellent lenses that cover MANY focal lengths, but if those focal lengths are make or break, then the individual should move on to the system that does work, rather than whinging and moaning. Be a little proactive.

Yes, there are limits to every system. Every single system has it’s pros and cons. No sane person grabs a screwdriver, and then complains that they can’t hammer a nail in. Again, all this whining, and excuses, to deflect.
you know, im not the one saying fea-something, and lei-something...

well, tell that to them who never stop moaning about that 100mm makro since four third era...

oh yeah, that colour you mentioned about, may i ask, did you only use the ooc jpeg or some pp-ing? because, for me personally, i could achieve any colour or looks. unless it was something which hardware restricted, like the oof / bokeh of anamorphic; hard edged iris (tri bladed, etc); the super soft highlight fall off (iykyk); or the unbelievably super fine out of the lens looks from zeiss master primes...
 

davidzvi

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Honestly I'm not sure I care if m4/3 continues to advance or release new stuff, there's really only one lens I would like that the system doesn't have.

Over the past 4 months I sold off my Pen F and 4 lenses. With the proceeds I bought a Fuji X100v and Z5 + 24-70 f/4. The Z lasted 2 weeks. The Fuji lasted a month.

I repurchased 2 of the lenses I sold (one I literally bought back). I replaced the Pen F with an import E-P7. And the first 2 lenses I sold (PL 15 & 8-18) were sold with the intent to buy the 8-25 Pro, which I now have.

OK, yes I was joking in case you were wondering. As the system is, it does everything I need and then some. Yes I hope it continues to advance and the one lens I'd like is on the roadmap. But even if everything shut down now I wouldn't sell out. Instead I'd probably reconsider getting the PL50-200 and TC.
 
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fsi22

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you know, im not the one saying fea-something, and lei-something...

well, tell that to them who never stop moaning about that 100mm makro since four third era...

oh yeah, that colour you mentioned about, may i ask, did you only use the ooc jpeg or some pp-ing? because, for me personally, i could achieve any colour or looks. unless it was something which hardware restricted, like the oof / bokeh of anamorphic; hard edged iris (tri bladed, etc); the super soft highlight fall off (iykyk); or the unbelievably super fine out of the lens looks from zeiss master primes...

Sorry, then what was the point of your 2 linked images? Seems to me like you have no coherent thought process on what it is you’re arguing about.

Not understanding your point about the 100mm either, you complained about a bunch of other lenses that don’t exist, and now talk about them? Who’s them?

Let me simplify this as much as possible, with regards to colour. You don’t need a system that has great colour rendition, but having one is a benefit. For many many many reasons. It’s a good starting point if a person wants to expand on that colour science, it also helps with pre visualizing a scene, for a jpg shooter, it means a close to or completed image at output and there are other reasons as well.

I get forums are an outlet for unfiltered thought, but, really? All your mental gymnastics to prove a point, that you, yourself don’t know what you’re trying to prove?

Maybe it would be more helpful if you backed up your words with your work?
 

RAH

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you know, im not the one saying fea-something, and lei-something...
You're the person who typed it, aren't you? It's in your post, as far as I can see, giving names to those links. I mean, it doesn't look as though you are replying to something that contains those terms. I think sticking to English would be really helpful so we know what you are talking about.
 
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I think I got you beat... Nikon 1 and Pentax Q, with Pentax K. and M43 doomed. I nearly bought a Saab 9-3 in 2008 and both of my current cars (Honda Element and S2000) were admired but poor sellers so they were axed. I'm King Midas in reverse.

But seriously, I can't wait for M43 to fail. Then I can swoop in and build a collection of ultra-fast lenses for cheap.
You made good choices on cars! Like both of them, especially the S2000. Like it better than the Miata.
 
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Seems to me like you have no coherent thought process on what it is you’re arguing about.

I think sticking to English would be really helpful so we know what you are talking about.

I think you could really cut the guy some slack because it is evident that english is not his native language.
It isn't trivial to express yourself in a different language than your own, much less so in written form.
Obviously, being particular about his word choice will not help.
 

Mike Wingate

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I am happy with my m43 equipment. I would like a 20mm lens, but shall refrain from purchasing any more until this time next year. To see if there is anything new that I want, or to buy a G9 and GX9 if they are not being upgraded/replaced.
 

RAH

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I think you could really cut the guy some slack because it is evident that english is not his native language.
It isn't trivial to express yourself in a different language than your own, much less so in written form.
Obviously, being particular about his word choice will not help.
I agree that it is good to cut people slack who don't know English very well. That's one thing, but he said that he didn't use the terms that he did (that I quoted). So it seemed a bit much, plus what appeared to be kind of an aggressive tone (to me, at least). But OK, I'll be good... :)
 
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I agree that it is good to cut people slack who don't know English very well. That's one thing, but he said that he didn't use the terms that he did (that I quoted). So it seemed a bit much, plus what appeared to be kind of an aggressive tone (to me, at least). But OK, I'll be good... :)
I did not mean to criticize your statement, which was factually correct, but also got a certain vibe that the tone was becoming slightly heated and wanted to make sure everyone's not taking each other too seriously. I get what you mean about the tone of his opinion but such subtleties are often lost on the internet... It is hard to tell if someone is typing their reply with clenched fist or a smiling face :hmmm:
 

fsi22

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I did not mean to criticize your statement, which was factually correct, but also got a certain vibe that the tone was becoming slightly heated and wanted to make sure everyone's not taking each other too seriously. I get what you mean about the tone of his opinion but such subtleties are often lost on the internet... It is hard to tell if someone is typing their reply with clenched fist or a smiling face :hmmm:
No clenched fists on my end, just confusion, got lost with the goal post shifting. I’m happy to discuss and learn and help others where I can, but also am less flowery in my writing, which may come across as sharp,abrupt or harsh, but that’s the nature of writing vs in person conversation.
 

felipegeek

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Steven,

Your points on integration externals services is a major issue for MFT devices. A big competitive advantage would be a well-designed, absolutely reliable smartphone app that is also energy efficient. I have an Oly EM1.3 and found the iOS app from Oly is absolutely useless. The setup in the app want to use WiFi and BT and can't connect and stay working with either. It doesn't let you select what wireless protocol you want to use which means the camera has both radios on consuming power unnecessarily. If it worked perfectly for transferring images, and sharing the transferred files into app on the smartphone like Instagram, Google Drive, OneDrive, Snapseed, Lightroom mobile straight away they would be ahead of all their competitors. The rest from other camera makers suck as well for the most part if not equally as bad so there is an opportunity to stand out there.

As far as producing sensors, I don't think Olympus OM will ever have the capacity to make their own sensors outright. They may be able to design their own sensors and have them made at a 3rd party fab, much the way AMD came back from the dead with CPUs and GPUs but that does have a lot of risk and probably more capital than the current owners can put in. I think they are stuck with existing sensors as base with customizations with specific performance and behavioral characteristics as they do now.

Adding computational capabilities to overcome sensor limitations, much the same way a Google or Apple phone does today would confer significant competitive advantages. It would also be a hard road because creating algorithms that work reliably to modify the image in real-time and generate results that preserve the character of the optics while allowing for improvements to the image that could not be provided by the optics and sensor alone. Night-mode in smartphones as a starting point. One can stand with the phone in a relatively dark place and not be perfectly still with handling and it will take a series of photos in real-time, correct for camera shake between frames, and recompile the image using something akin to bracketing composites in the device. Is it perfect, no, but it's something my MFT cam can't do. It allows for creating images that would otherwise be onerous to produce with a pile of post work to get there. Leveraging IBIS with the large sensor (by comparison to a smartphone sensor) and applying computational algos to generate well-exposed images with low-noise through in-camera processing. The same noise reduction and detail enhancement algos could be be use with generally high-iso images for improved outcomes. MFT could be viable a very long time with investments that erase just about every real drawback of MFT vs current 35mm frame ILC cameras. The latter would also add similar capabilities as well and are probably already working on it, especially for Sony that has made smartphones for quite some years now. The differences between MFT and 35mm sensor cams would be made quite a bit smaller for all practical use.

I feel like I'm starting to sound a bit like rant. I will stop here.
 

felipegeek

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My perspective above is as an Oly user of several bodies. My first MFT was a Pana GF5 though. Speaking to Panasonic they may well shrink what they are doing with the consumer camera division but they also they work with Leica on lenses and make & sell sensors and other tech for all kinds of video surveillance, medical systems and such. I would not be too surprised if the dropped consumer but maybe they will keep the well-regarded typically seen as professional hear like the GH models.

My 35mm sensor is film and I'm still happy with MFT, now bring me some connectivity that works and clean 3200 ISO even if a algo is making it so.
 

RAH

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Adding computational capabilities to overcome sensor limitations, much the same way a Google or Apple phone does today would confer significant competitive advantages. It would also be a hard road because creating algorithms that work reliably to modify the image in real-time and generate results that preserve the character of the optics while allowing for improvements to the image that could not be provided by the optics and sensor alone ... It allows for creating images that would otherwise be onerous to produce with a pile of post work to get there. Leveraging IBIS with the large sensor (by comparison to a smartphone sensor) and applying computational algos to generate well-exposed images with low-noise through in-camera processing.
You mean like hi-res mode? It sounds almost like a description of it.
 

felipegeek

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There are some computational functions HR mode, Live Composite, HDR, but I am looking for substantially more sophisticated image processing that can maximize the quality of outcomes, and provide for more flexibility by compensating for weaknesses in the underlying sensors, and increasing compositional options.
 

felipegeek

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FF couldn't cancel the Go-Pro camera, I don't see how the FF is going to cancel out the MFT.
I would like to agree but they are quite dissimilar devices as far as ergonomics and intended use. MFT is far more similar to FF cameras in every aspect functionally speaking.
 

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