More speculation on the future of M43

pdk42

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I assume you mean a Nikon 24-120mm?

Unfortunately Olympus prices have always been high and those prices are not too far off say the E-M.3 + 12-100/4 which with the current sale is still ~$2700. When not on sale then you are at $3100.

I ran both a Z7 + 24-200 and an EM1.3 + 12-100 concurrently. I'd prefer the Oly combo any day. The 12-100 is a much superior optic to the 24-200 and the capabilities of the EM1.3 are way beyond the Z7. The area where the Z7 excels of course is the sensor. But most people in most situations don't need the IQ that a 47Mp FF sensor delivers. That point though is hard to get across to photographers for whom the holy grail of gear is the ability to take photos at ISO 3200+ and then be able to pixel-peek them at 100% zoom or higher on massive monitors. If any of them asked the question "how are my images viewed by others" then the answer would not lead them to a high MP FF camera.
 

BrianLa

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It's sad for us that full frame will kill Micro Four Thirds, but at least we will get to see medium format kill full frame.
Actually if there's a format under threat I would suggwst it's aps-c. What is the point of buying aps-c these days, it's basically the same size and weight as modern full frame. Aps-c has none of the advantages of m4/3 and all the disadvantages of full frame. Modern software (and sensors) remove, for all intents and purposes, the difference between m4/3, aps-c and full frame so aps-c dies!
Brian
 

speedy

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That point though is hard to get across to photographers for whom the holy grail of gear is the ability to take photos at ISO 3200+ and then be able to pixel-peek them at 100% zoom or higher on massive monitors. If any of them asked the question "how are my images viewed by others" then the answer would not lead them to a high MP FF camera.
Nailed it. The vast majority of photos taken, are viewed as a whole, from phone screens, tablets, & average sized monitors. You don't buy 40+MP gear for that. You buy 40+MP 36x24 gear, and larger, to win interwebz p!ssing competitons. That's it. Oh, & a few Pro togs use it too.
 

pake

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Nailed it. The vast majority of photos taken, are viewed as a whole, from phone screens, tablets, & average sized monitors. You don't buy 40+MP gear for that. You buy 40+MP 36x24 gear, and larger, to win interwebz p!ssing competitons. That's it. Oh, & a few Pro togs use it too.
Winning an argument online is teh best thing ever. :rolleyes:
 
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Actually if there's a format under threat I would suggwst it's aps-c. What is the point of buying aps-c these days, it's basically the same size and weight as modern full frame. Aps-c has none of the advantages of m4/3 and all the disadvantages of full frame. Modern software (and sensors) remove, for all intents and purposes, the difference between m4/3, aps-c and full frame so aps-c dies!
Brian
Well the difference is that there is a range of companies with APS-C sensor cameras, and a good lens selection.

M43 has a ton of lenses available, but there are only two companies that supported the format with modern camera bodies, one has been focusing on their full frame spiel while the other has just sold their camera division.
So I wouldn't rule out the possibility that

a. Panasonic decides to focus on Full Frame only. Since there are no GX9 and G9 sucessors, and the GH6 is taking much longer, I don't actually see them releasing another stills-centric M43 camera body soon.
b. JIP bit off more than they can chew with Olympus, and will actually fail or wither in the same way that Sony VAIO laptops have withered into insignificance

Or both, as for APS-C I believe it depends on the manufacturer, but some systems are alive and well. Sony lens choice is almost competetive with M43, while Fuji with less choice covers almost everything with high-quality first-party lenses. Fuji has the added benefit of people not being able to move up to FF, few will make a move to medium format.
Canon APS-C mirrorless seems unfortunately like a dead end, the same for Nikon which seems to exist solely as a gateway drug to get people hooked on Nikon mirrorless and buy into full frame.

Most likely to survive, Fuji, then Sony if they don't ax it in favor of FF.
Most likely to die, Canon APS-C, later Nikon and much later Sony once they decide that everyone should buy their bigger stuff.

If both JIP and Panasonic call it quits, that would mean a new camera system for me in the next 2-3 years. I'm not so old that I will take m43 to the grave, I hope to have at least 30 good years with this hobby ahead of me and want something current, and want to see the technological progress of our cameras integrating better with modern technology (smartphones), and perhaps integrate computational processing to improve IQ and/or dynamic range, basically what our phones are already doing but backed by a much larger and more capable sensor.

I am a nerd with a camera and currently M43 with their features are where technology and photography intersect for me (and the smaller format caters to my small nerd hands).
If neither Panny nor JIP/OM System can innovate with the sensors and fantastic lenses we already have I will be very disappointed. Most of that innovation should come from connectivity and processing, IMO.
 
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SteveNunez

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All great replies, in essence m4/3 is likely to fade away. I wonder how many will truly buy this lens knowing the future of the format is questionable.
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RAH

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All great replies, in essence m4/3 is likely to fade away.
I disagree that the essence of most of the replies is that m43 is likely to fade away. It seemed very mixed to me, with no real consensus. This is an m43 forum, of course, so that's what you'd expect, but I think that's what we got.
 

Paul C

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Big Sensor = "Good"
Small sensor = "Bad"
Sallest Sensor = "Worst" ?


Let's here it for the advantages - I never travel witout a 1/2.3" sensor compact; there are times when the astonishing depth of field those cameras can create are the only way to make a picture without a pile of gear and a massive focus stack afterwards !

What about a periscope lens compact? The Fuji EXR sensor in their top end Z-series camera gives you simultaneous HDR with alternate pixels in a shirt pocket camera. Leave the ND-grad at home. Don't need the extended dynamic range? Add the 2 together and double the resolution (not that you can see it on a typical HDR screen, of course!).

Big sensor needed? Perhaps take a moment to check out the "Brenizer method". This increases the effective sensor size of the camera, simulating the characteristics of large format photography. With a 40-50mm fast lens, an M4/3 sensor and 5 or more images, you can get very creative.

"Gritty, realistic", photojournalism in a pocket size package? The Panasonic high-contrast 1600asa film-simulation mode is fanstastic straight out of camera. That was built into a heap of their cameras of all formats from about 2008. It takes a lot of "Silver-EFEX-Pro" to better it. You couln't tell if it was created with a 10 vs 20MP sensor - it simply wouldn't matter.

Alternatives to high-end post-process programs" Check out the wonderful Sean Tucker who shoots with a compact and does all his processing on a phone --

I regularly use from phones, via 1/2.5", M4/3, FF to 6x6 systems - no one is inherently better or worse - they are just optimised to different goals. Crucially for us, there are a ton of techniques that widen the capabilities and therefore the opportunities from each camera and system. Which is why I encourage you all to share your experiences trying them out with a quick posting to the MU43 website so we can all learn!
 
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SteveNunez

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To be honest- I truly hope the format continues and develops into a trend setting class/format...that's one of the reasons I own 5 m4/3 cameras including a newish Olympus EM1X but in my opinion I don't see a long life :crying: ahead. My local BestBuy (Fort Lauderdale, Florida USA) used to showcase the complete lineup of m4/3 cameras whereas now I only see 2 models on display- but yet I see tons of full framed models on display along with a few FujiFilm aps-c cameras and a few Sony A6000 series.....the push to full frame is clearly evident in the USA market- at least as far as BestBuy is concerned which is where many (Americans) are likely to see them in person as opposed to savy shoppers who'll oder online and may be aware of all the options available.
Anyway, I'll continue to shoot and enjoy them until I feel the effort in carrying them is outweighed by FF cameras by virtue of their capabilities m4/3 cameras can't match.....the issue is that time seems just about now. I've put my EM1X for sale but will use it if it doesn't sell and enjoy doing so.
 
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Sometimes I envy the folks that bought into the Samsung NX system. At least they don't have to wonder/worry if their chosen system will continue. ;)

- K
No joke, when I started reading about mirrorless systems, I was dead set on Samsung NX. All the reviews sounded great, and they were cheap and abundant, but I didn't know the reason why yet.
 

DeeJayK

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No joke, when I started reading about mirrorless systems, I was dead set on Samsung NX. All the reviews sounded great, and they were cheap and abundant, but I didn't know the reason why yet.
The NX cameras were extremely attractive from the standpoint of capability and value. The question was always whether they could build a large enough user base to sustain the system.

- K
 

nstelemark

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<snip>

He talks about sensor tech and how it’s immaterial because ff sensors will have the same tech. Which is true. But show me a FF camera that has all the capabilities of my EM1x like pro capture and live composite or the ability to shoot 60fps.

Everyone forgets image pipeline. If you have a 50MP FF sensor that is a lot of data to move and manipulate. There is an interesting review of the new Sony smartphone with a 1" sensor. It takes clearly worse pictures than the current iPhone. Computational photography is here to stay and smaller sensors have advantages here (and of course telephoto applications).

***Edit - apparently I’m an idiot the 18-300 only covers an aps-c image circle. But hey it only underlines the point.

800g vs 1300g give or take.
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John M Flores

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My other dooomed camera is a Pentax. What, me worry? 😂
I think I got you beat... Nikon 1 and Pentax Q, with Pentax K. and M43 doomed. I nearly bought a Saab 9-3 in 2008 and both of my current cars (Honda Element and S2000) were admired but poor sellers so they were axed. I'm King Midas in reverse.

But seriously, I can't wait for M43 to fail. Then I can swoop in and build a collection of ultra-fast lenses for cheap.
 
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jimr.pdx

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I see that Sony finally found a way to kill off old models rather than dumping them into the market. The chip shortage is doing the dirty work they cannot bring themselves to do. Farewell 7-markii and early 6x 'alpha's..
 

jimr.pdx

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The NX cameras were extremely attractive from the standpoint of capability and value. The question was always whether they could build a large enough user base to sustain the system.

- K
I let my nx300 go with reluctance. Sad that the Pentax partnership expired before they could get copies of that 20Mpx PDAF-able sensor, let alone the 28Mpx shooting star.
 

fsi22

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Yes, M43 can’t do bokeh and you can’t get good images with the system :-S . Idiotic article and maybe the whiners should focus on their photography, rather than repeating the same tired old song, which really is just a mask on their inabilities. M43 is great, I use a Sony A1 as well, but the Olympus colours, Olympus feathered bokeh and Panasonic Leica bokeh ( which means quality, not quantity ) are stunning. Throw in all the ACTUALLY useful tools like Live Composite, Pro Capture, ND, IBIS, weather sealing and it is the most complete system, bar none.
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Yes, M43 can’t do bokeh and you can’t get good images with the system :-S . Idiotic article and maybe the whiners should focus on their photography, rather than repeating the same tired old song, which really is just a mask on their inabilities. M43 is great, I use a Sony A1 as well, but the Olympus colours, Olympus feathered bokeh and Panasonic Leica bokeh ( which means quality, not quantity ) are stunning. Throw in all the ACTUALLY useful tools like Live Composite, Pro Capture, ND, IBIS, weather sealing and it is the most complete system, bar none.
View attachment 919339 View attachment 919340 View attachment 919341 View attachment 919342

I like to use these examples for the beautiful bokeh and IQ one can get from M43 for portraits. Just gorgeous. You don't need FF for that!
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/sigma-56mm-is-awesome.104623/
 

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