Monochrome for m43 would be awesome

agentlossing

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I think it's kind of funny how supportive the online photography media is being about this $8000 camera. In the past they've made some jabs about Leica but everyone seems to think this model is above reproach.

Sure, I love the concept, and I understand why Leica has the cachet that it has, but I just find it odd that no one seems to be doing the characteristic head-wagging at this model (yet). I would also totally be up for a monochrome M4/3 sensor, provided it didn't cost... $8000! :p
 
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For a mere 20K, you can have the Leica M Monochrom Drifter Lenny Kravitz Limited Edition Camera Bundle. 😂 And there's one review:

4.0 out of 5 stars awesome camera, iPhone has a new competitor.
Reviewed in the United States on August 26, 2019
great camera with amazing quality. my iPhone didn't stand a chance. just don't drop it like I did. hopefully my gofundme will help cover some of the damages.


"iPhone has a new competitor..." OMG, I can't even, lol.
 

WT21

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Acraftman

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Just a question regarding B&W and the Olympus Hi-Res mode.My understanding with this function is the improved color characteristics but would it also do anything for B&W photography?
 

Mack

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Leica has tried this numerous times. Some of the B&W bodies were designer made. Another was a "Black Stealth" body with the glow-in-the-dark paint for the lens and body settings.

What would be nice is if they teamed up with Canon or Epson and also had a multi-ink printer that did B&W inksets in varying tones along with tint/tone controls for printing. Something along the lines of Jon Cones K7 inks, carbon long-life inks, piezography inks, etc. Add some Leica Red Dot paper too.

Maybe just take a Pen-F and set the front dial to Mono for a lot less. :whistling:
 

junkyardsparkle

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Hmmmm....interesting, but wouldn’t the camera firmware still try to pixel bin (I think I mean interpolate here?)? That’s one of the advantages of the dedicated B&W approach according to the DPR article.
You would need to process Raw images from a de-Bayered camera in appropriate software... darktable, for instance, has an "experimental" pass-through demosaic mode for just this kind of thing... unfortunately, I think the time when I would have tried to do this to a still-working camera body has passed me by (not that super-resolution or monochrome are really at the top of my list of interests anyway). :rolleyes:

An interesting thing to ponder is how much the need to use actual color filters in front of your lens would cut into the advantages over the now-taken-for-granted digital monochroming from Bayer data...
 
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I'd love to see a side by side comparison of a subject shot in B&W between these two cameras - the Leica in one corner and the Pen F (substitute any other mu4/3 camera in its place if you prefer) in the other. Perhaps the first round as a SOOC contest, and the second round as a PP contest. Anyone have this Leica and be willing to show us a comparison?n Would the Leica photo be worth $7000 more than the other?
 

wjiang

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I think if you really wanted that extra bit of sensitivity and tonal quality, you wouldn't be using an already 'compromised' 4/3 sensor.
By picking m4/3 you're already choosing to make a 'good-enough' compromise, I'm not sure what the point of that little extra bit of quality is for.
 

mumu

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I'd love to see a side by side comparison of a subject shot in B&W between these two cameras - the Leica in one corner and the Pen F (substitute any other mu4/3 camera in its place if you prefer) in the other. Perhaps the first round as a SOOC contest, and the second round as a PP contest. Anyone have this Leica and be willing to show us a comparison?n Would the Leica photo be worth $7000 more than the other?
To the Leica shooter, probably. To the m43 shooter, probably not.
 
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WT21

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I think if you really wanted that extra bit of sensitivity and tonal quality, you wouldn't be using an already 'compromised' 4/3 sensor.
By picking m4/3 you're already choosing to make a 'good-enough' compromise, I'm not sure what the point of that little extra bit of quality is for.
So because of a known sacrifice, we shouldnt be at all interested in small improvements? Therefore no one should want eg a 20MP sensor over a 16? This doesn’t make sense, but I also wasn’t sure you aren’t just kidding around here.

I like to shoot B&W and would welcome a dedicated camera for it if, by being B&W, it also provided sharpness improvements. I wonder if you did HSL in post on a raw image with no color info, would you get the benefits?
 

SojiOkita

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A monochrome mu43 sensor could in principle have more MP without as much of a noise penalty. Imagine a Pen F with a 36 MP monochrome sensor. I might consider purchasing such a beastie.
With a monochrome sensor you can improve the resolution without having more Mpix.
No Bayer filter...

Some smartphones have a dedicated B&W sensor... why not in m43.
I wouldn't buy such a camera though, but a monochrome version of the Pen-F would make sense.
 

Mack

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I downloaded this JPEG off the dpreview site made from the M10 Monochrom.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


It is interesting to see the shadow detail in some of the black areas like the tree bark and back of the people's jackets. The edges appear soft to me around the tree limbs, but maybe wind was blowing a bit given the 1/180 shutter speed.

Checking that image in EXIFtool it also shows this info:

Exposure 2012 : -0.10
Contrast 2012 : +30
Highlights 2012 : -13
Shadows 2012 : +15
Whites 2012 : 0
Blacks 2012 : -4
Clarity 2012 : +24
Dehaze : +19
Sharpen Radius : +1.3
Sharpen Detail : 5
Sharpen Edge Masking : 0

This is the odd one about the number of scans being three? Wonder if it was a HDR shot with the three scans? Dunno...

Progressive Scans : 3 Scans
 
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.....
Progressive Scans : 3 Scans
Progressive Scan hasn't got anything to do with HDR.
It's a rending technique for JPEG to speed up loading of a JPEG on websites. Or to be exact to increase the perception of a faster loading image as it loads the image in 3 stages.. low quality, then adds medium quality and finalize the image in high quality vs just trying to load the final high quality image first time (which would result in a website rendering the image line by line and have you staring at a white space for quite some time).

Regarding the topic... I do really like the concept of a monochrome only camera if this increases the sensor performance (otherwise it's just better to do it in post). An "Pen-Fm" (weather-sealed please) would be great. Having to fork over $8000 (excluding some Leica glass which doesn't come cheap) is a bit hard to swallow.
I do have my e-m 5 set to JPEG Monochrome and use it quite often.. poor mans monochrome ;-)
 

wjiang

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So because of a known sacrifice, we shouldnt be at all interested in small improvements? Therefore no one should want eg a 20MP sensor over a 16? This doesn’t make sense, but I also wasn’t sure you aren’t just kidding around here.

I like to shoot B&W and would welcome a dedicated camera for it if, by being B&W, it also provided sharpness improvements. I wonder if you did HSL in post on a raw image with no color info, would you get the benefits?
To each their own I suppose. The switch to 20MP from 16MP did not come with compromises, so it was a case of 'why not'. Here, it's a different story.
Just how much better is the image quality for it to be worth the sacrifice of not being able to do colour at all?

Personally, I value the ability to do channel-specific HSL B&W in post. With a de-Bayered RAW, you'd have to go back to screwing coloured filters on the front to get the same effect. AFAIK, there's no point fiddling with HSL with a de-Bayered RAW.
 
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