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Mirrorless etc stats - Germany

Discussion in 'Micro 4/3 News and Rumors' started by OzRay, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
  2. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    Rob
    I was just reading that Canon believes DSLR market will be flat to declining and mirrorless will dominate by 2017. They are working on their own mirrorless DSLR products.

    The interesting stats will be what format will remain, be growing, declining, etc...

    By then though, I'll have every lens I could ever need and will be happy with my m43 for a very long time.
     
  3. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Crikey - it's taken them a long time to realise!
     
  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    While this are just the figures from Germany (Japan is still strong), what's interesting is that there's been growth year after year and that's always a good sign.

    It is interesting that Europe has a completely different outlook on mirrorless when compared to the US and it would be interesting to understand why it's like that, it can't just be the usual meme that the US likes things big.

    Ironically, it closely reflects the sale of Windows phones around the world, Europe embracing them far more than the US. I wonder if there's any correlation?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  5. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    The US is a more conservative market which is probably a factor. On top of that, u43 gear is hard to find in the dealer chain and marketing seems to be much lower key. I guess the cost of breaking into the US market is higher than in Europe.
     
  6. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Personally, based on the rumours I see on the M43 rumour site (if only half of them are true) we are going to have some awesome stuff turn up in M43 land. the alleged 1/32000 electronic shutter, Pana/Fuji organic sensor, F 1.0 Oly primes...

    I'm actually quite excited for the possibilities.

    with relation to your question, Ray, I do wonder if the US folk like the "brand name" and are perhaps a bit more conservative when it comes to different tech. I think Europeans may be more open to trying out different things.

    I certainly see this in food, for example, where I compare my native born European friends (I myself am Hungarian born), to my US and Australian friends...

    My European friends are much more likely to try a fried cricket on the backstreets of Bangkok (even those that have lived in Aus or the US most of their lives, such as myself), or to just go nuts trying whatever they find in the street food stalls, vs my Aussie and Yank friends who would prefer to stick with the wonderfully tasty known cuisines. My Asian friends also tend to be a bit more willing to try new stuff, now that I think of it.

    Not saying all Europeans are open, or all Aussie/Yanks are less adventurous, I just think there is a slight tendency towards being more adventurous in the Europeans.

    Z...
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2015
  7. devorama

    devorama New to Mu-43

    8
    Mar 25, 2015
    I'm wondering if it's easier in Europe and Japan to test out more mirrorless cameras in stores. In the US, there are very few camera stores, so most people shop for cameras in "big box" stores like Best Buy. That store mainly carries DSLRs and only a few mirrorless. I've seen more of a display for Sony, and their NEX series has done pretty well here. But I've never seen an E-M5 or E-M1 until I went to New York a week ago and visited the mother of all US camera stores, B&H Photo. There I got to test out the E-M5 II and the E-M1 as well as many other cameras I've only read about online. Nikon Df, Lytro Illum, Pentax 645D, Fuji X-T1, Samsung NX1 and others were all on hand to paw over. That's a store that levels the playing field. I loved the E-M1 and the E-M5 II. When I saw the Olympus sale on refurbished cameras, I snapped up an E-M1!
     
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  8. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I suppose if you can't actually see or handle the cameras in stores, then they might as well not exist.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
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  9. peppermonkey

    peppermonkey Mu-43 Regular

    97
    May 20, 2013
    Toronto, Canada
    Thank goodness there are a number of retail shops that carry most all cameras in and around Toronto, Canada. Downtown Camera, chain stores Henrys and Aden pretty much have the whole gamut of m43 camera bodies and lenses to play with. Even Best Buy (and Future Shop) have a selection of Oly cameras and lenses (albeit small selection). Never really realized we had it better than many states in the US. We Canadians generally think we are shafted in selection and price when compared to our neighbors to our south.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  10. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Surprisingly, not far from where I live and where we usually go shopping there's a store that sells cameras, electronics and all manner of things (kind of like an independent Dick Smith, or Radio Shack for US readers, no idea what Europe's equivalent is) and they always have at least one m4/3 body and lenses on display. As for our other mixed electronics, white goods etc stores like Hardly Normal, JB LoFi and similar, whether they have them in stock is always a mixed bag. You can always guarantee Nikon, Canon and even Pentax are on the shelves.

    Back to the phone analogy, I guess that's one reason why Android and iPhones are so dominant, it's never ending marketing, marketing, marketing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  11. Ian.

    Ian. Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 13, 2013
    Munich
    Ian
    I my city in Germany we have about 5 camera shops. All the larger ones have as many different brands as they can fit in. So m43 is easy to find. You still only see a small percentage out and about though.

    Germany is still very traditional in most things. The stick to traditional food. They think ketchup is spicy! And there is a big respect for traditional shops. Plus I think there are laws protecting small retailers.

    I'm still fascinated by the US reluctance to upgrade to mirrorless. I don't know enough from the US to understand their way of thinking. But the whole imperial feet, inches, ounces and miles should give us a clue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  12. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Well off-topic and I don't know about German tradition, but you guys certainly know about service. Just to provide an example, last night I sent a service request about two mobile accounts that I have with Aldi mobile and I received a response on a Sunday and had it fully addressed within an hour. I would have been happy to have it addressed within the week, but within 24 hours and on a weekend? There is not another business in Australia that could/would have responded so efficiently.

    I'm still gobsmacked.
     
  13. Ian.

    Ian. Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 13, 2013
    Munich
    Ian
    In Germany you will generally get awful service. Not only incompetence but they are often rude to you. Especially the telecoms companies. Sure if they've bought up a foreign service company to cover a foreign market, they may get lucky. But the upper management have no clue. It is not part of their culture. And the locals accept it and rarely complain. I've tried to complain and have been made to call 5 different departments and really work hard to get a refund. They are not trying to avoid me. It is just sheer incompetence and lack of respect for customers.
    I shan't tell you any bad stories about it though. As I ban friends from discussing it. The stories just get too horrible. And others chip in with their experiences. And it just gets worse and worse.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
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  14. alan1972

    alan1972 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    592
    Jun 23, 2012
    Malaga, Spain
    Alan Grant
    I have just had a quick look at the camera section of the general electronics shop in Dublin Airport as I was passing through. I counted 12 DSLR models on display and 13 mirrorless system cameras, of which about half were m43 (not counting the LX100 which was also on display). So plenty of opportunities for people to become aware of mirrorless. I did notice that some of the mirrorless models were relatively old models with very little discounting relative to their original prices, which might cause mirrorless to appear rather expensive to entry level users if they are not aware that these models can be found much cheaper by shopping around.

    Despite the reported decline of compact nob-system cameras they still occupied more display space than all types of interchangeable lens camera combined.
     
  15. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    Graham
    No more Future Shop as of 7:00AM Saturday - Best Buy locked them all. Half are being converted to BB; the rest will be returned to the landlords and stock distributed to nearby BB locations. .
     
  16. Zee

    Zee Mu-43 Top Veteran

    That kind of saddens me. My first ever digital camera (some HP 2MP thing) was purchased at a Future Shop in Vancouver in 2003. I still have it somewhere...

    Z...
     
  17. faithblinded

    faithblinded Mu-43 Top Veteran

    929
    Nov 25, 2014
    Cleveland, OH
    Ken
    I believe the tide is beginning to shift in the US at last. I am seeing more and more mirrorless, and I get alot of questions from dslr shooters lately. I believe the Sony A7 series convinced many pros and serious amateurs that mirrorless might just be worth more than the sneering look so many have been giving it so far. Also, Nikon's failure to release a D400 has forced alot of folks into full frame that don't need it. Most of the Nikon wildlife shooters I see are using full frame now, and they are among the most curious about my kit. Those still using their old D300/S are ripe for the picking, if only they could get mirrorless on their radar. The change in mindset is the first big step to acceptance here in the US, I think.
     
  18. Ian.

    Ian. Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 13, 2013
    Munich
    Ian
    It's good to see plenty of mirrorless cameras among the DPReview.com challenges. And among the winners too.
     
  19. Lcrunyon

    Lcrunyon Mu-43 Top Veteran

    757
    Jun 4, 2014
    Maryland
    Loren
    I think that there has always been the potential for demand here, and that the, "Americans think bigger is better" stigma is overstated. The lack of camera stores and knowledgeable staff are probably the biggest culprit. I watch the The Camera Store guys on YouTube occasionally. They tend to see customers more interested in mirrorless these days than most would think, and they are in Calgary - close enough that tastes should be generally similar.

    Do you have a good camera store in Cleveland? Our one near Dulles airport doesn't seem to be enough around here.
     
  20. faithblinded

    faithblinded Mu-43 Top Veteran

    929
    Nov 25, 2014
    Cleveland, OH
    Ken
    Yes we have a strong local shop called Dodd's. They do quite a good rental business, and it is suspected that's what keeps them large and strong. It's nice to have somewhere local to try out a large selection of gear, despite not living in NYC or Tokyo. I try to make a few purchases with them a year, when they can come close to the online price. I'll be taking a my new super telephoto in there soon to find a bag that holds it the way I want, and if they are even remotely close to online retail, I will buy it there. There is a point at which I have to be frugal, despite wanting to keep my dollars local.