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Mirrorless camera sales in decline

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by craniac, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. craniac

    craniac Mu-43 Regular

    64
    Jul 26, 2013
    Orem, Utah.
    Mark Crane
    Earnings Slump at Japan Camera Makers - WSJ.com

    "But Nikon said it is also seeing sales decline in the more profitable interchangeable lens segment, which includes its flagship single-lens reflex, or SLR, and its so-called "mirrorless" cameras.

    Nikon cut its full-year sales estimates for interchangeable lens cameras by 8% to 6.55 million units, while slashing its compact digital camera forecasts by 18% to 11.5 million units from its earlier projections announced in May.

    In the interchangeable lens segment, Nikon said demand for its mirrorless--named so because the cameras can be more compact since they do not use the traditional mirror-based viewfinder system used in SLRs--model was disappointing."
     
  2. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    My opinion,

    Typical consumers are realizing "what is good enough" and no longer views a dedicated camera as a absolute necessity to achieve acceptable results. Its all going towards something practically everyone already carries... cell phones. Its small, convenient, and connected. Most photos are now shared not printed or presented.

    I keep seeing more cellphones being used for photos than any other camera. I think Samsung is a step forward in this respect.


    I never thought I would admit this... but I too started to take more snapshots with my new Samsung Galaxy S4. Its not too bad. I'd be interested in trading for an S4 zoom. All I do with my phone is data, txt, and pictures anyways.
     
  3. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    My personal sense is that Nikon has never marketed these cameras as being serious photographic tools worthy of being used instead of a mid-range APS-C DSLR by real photographers.

    Nikon's attitude about the Nikon 1 system is right there in their report for all to see. They think they are fashion accessories that ladies will use to shoot pictures of their kids and shoot selfies for Facebook with - as long as the camera is small enough, cute enough, and comes in the right color to match the lady's purse and shoes.

    The fact is, Olympus and Panasonic would kill for the Big Box store shelf space that Nikon has for these cameras at Best Buy and Costco simply due to Nikon's brand name, but Nikon has completely squandered that space. If you walk into any Best Buy, you will not see the V1 or V2 camera - which are the serious, capable Nikon 1 cameras with integrated viewfinders, nor the range of lenses that the Nikon 1 system has - what you will see is several different J1 or J2 cameras, one in every color that Nikon makes them in, along with kit lenses (and ONLY the kit lenses) in all the same matching colors.
     
  4. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oh yes... I agree with ^^^. Nikon kinda sucks at anything smaller than their DSLR line. At least Canon has had great success with their G-series.
     
  5. madogvelkor

    madogvelkor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    937
    Feb 22, 2013
    Connecticut
    The Nikon 1 is a nice looking camera that doesn't resemble anything else. But it is hard to see the value proposition vs. either an RX100 or MFT.

    For around the same price you can get the more compact and featured RX100, or you could get a similar sized Olympus/Panasonic with better sensors and a much wide lens selection.

    And that doesn't even touch on the NEX, which is often sitting in the big box stores next to the Nikons, and priced the same or less.
     
  6. craniac

    craniac Mu-43 Regular

    64
    Jul 26, 2013
    Orem, Utah.
    Mark Crane
    I agree that Nikon sucks in this segment, although I saw another article that I can't find now that says that MFT sales are declining everywhere but Japan. It's not like they're going to disappear, but still an interesting trend.
     
  7. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    I tend to think that - at least in terms of Mirrorless, there are different reasons across the board depending upon the manufacturer.

    In the case of both Nikon and Canon, one can easily blame incompetent product positioning relative to their DSLRs.

    In the case of Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony, it's more due to the timing of the Product cycles. The fact is that there have not been any particularly interesting products that hit the market in late 2012 or early 2013 - ALL of their compelling product hit in early to mid-2012 - which DID lead to a BIG surge in the 2nd half of 2012. Now we see that the 1H 2013 numbers are basically trying to build on that surge with nothing compelling to drive sales except big and getting bigger discounts on the mature products. The GX7 and the follow-on to the OM-D will definitely spice up the product portfolio in M4/3, And Sony's NEX-7 replacement will do the same for them.

    The only companies in the segment that actually DID have some interesting product intros in early 2013 are Fuji and Samsung, and their market presence is still small enough that they do little to move the needle overall - although I'd be surprised if Fuji in particular did not gain share in 1H 2013.
     
  8. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    You have to admit though... Canon's powershot bridge cameras and their higher end G-series did pretty well in comparison to Nikon.
     
  9. madogvelkor

    madogvelkor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    937
    Feb 22, 2013
    Connecticut
    We're also reaching a point where upgrading doesn't give as large a leap in performance as it once did. It's true for DSLRs as well, which is why we're seeing drops in the prices of entry level APS-C and FF cameras.

    I think one of the big problems facing all mirrorless cameras is that they look more like P&S cameras to the layperson and DSLRs still have "professional" aura.

    I bet if Canon made a DSLR that looked like an AE-1 with the same exact capabilities and price as a T5i, more people would buy the T5i.
     
  10. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Nikon's pulled ahead of Canon a little in camera body land in recent years (Canon's sensor tech has only advanced minimally since the 5D mark II as far as I can tell, while the jump from Nikon's D700 to the D800 is breathtaking). I've never been impressed by any of Nikon's compacts, while Canon still has an interesting lineup. Not terribly interesting to me, but I can see the appeal:

    - G series for full control
    - S series for pocketable cameras with a lot of control
    - IXUS for stylish, small, compact, midrange pricing
    - SX series for relatively compact 'superzooms'

    I'm not too worried, really; sales of almost everything are dropping, after all. Sure, be fun if sales were rising across the board, but the result will generally be job losses at said companies rather than products disappearing.
     
  11. craniac

    craniac Mu-43 Regular

    64
    Jul 26, 2013
    Orem, Utah.
    Mark Crane
    Maybe manufacturers should sell each camera with a really cheap, long lens so consumers have something to wave around menacingly at soccer games and family parties.

    Based on anecdotal observations, a lot of soccer parents are buying the chunkier fixed-lens cameras that look sort of DSLR-ish but aren't, like the $200+ Powershots or Lumii.

    I guess you get that DSLR look and don't have to worry about changing lenses. One of my favorite old cameras is a ten-year-old Lumix that falls into that category and that my nine-year-old daughter inherited.
     
  12. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    I took a look at this in the store the other day....Rather bulky but no need for a compact point and shoot for sure!

    ht_samsung_camera_white_jef_121224_wg.
     
  13. gotak

    gotak Mu-43 Regular

    185
    Nov 28, 2012
    Toronto
    Not surprised because of the smart phone cannibalization, but that has more to do with majority not caring about photo quality than smart phones being equal to even point and shoot for photos.

    I cringe when people take photos at night on trips with phones. Like the endless numbers do in Paris. Right for a lot of people it is the one trip they might take to Paris. Why bring back bad photos? A friend just recently shared her Rome holiday photo from her phone. Horrible, she made her husband look like an undead in the night photos.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    Don't disagree, but neither of these explain the state of mirrorless sales. After all, Olympus and Panasonic are also declining, especially in the US and Europe.
     
  15. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    The photo linked is the Samsung Galaxy Camera. Its actually targeting consumers looking for a android P&S. The Samsung Galaxy S4 zoom is a bit smaller and slimmer than the Galaxy camera. Smart phone integrated so its one less thing to carry. The S4 zoom is targeted towards smart phone users looking for an integrated P&S camera.

    The following link has some side by side photos of the camera vs smart phone zoom. There's a side by side photo with the iphone 5 so you get the idea of size.

    Galaxy S4 Zoom vs Galaxy Camera hardware photos leak - Android Community

    I think Samsung has the right idea for the typical consumer... (not necessarily photographer)
     
  16. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Personally,
    I think the Samsung Galaxy NX represents the baseline for future photojournalism....


    Screen-Shot-2013-06-13-at-10.32.20-AM.
     
  17. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    It was mostly a side bar off topic comment.....

    But

    Sales is declining across the board for these products. As mentioned, I feel it has to do with people finding phones "good enough" AND more convenient. This is where I think Samsung is headed in the right direction. I think at some point sales will level off as the market for photographers will still exist. What camera manufacturers still exist at that point is still up for debate.

    BUT

    I still think that Olympus and Panasonic have the perfect formula to survive and thrive.... a good compromise to take the "practical" enthusiasts in the market. My opinion is that if Olympus and Panasonic fail with the micro 4/3rds system, its their own damn fault... and blame cannot be simply explained by camera phone cannibalization. They simply can't market worth a damn.
     
  18. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer


    Oh yes... imagine the value to a journalist... shoot, process, and submit photo w/ story all from the camera. No wonder all those photographers working for printed news media are getting laid off. Kinda reminds me of the split between artists and writers in the comic book world (1980s?). Better stories or better pictures.... choose one...

    For me... I'm still a Leica (and MFT) shooter. I'm looking for something that replaces my aging Panasonic Lumix TZ5 P&S. Integrating my phone and a P&S camera seems like a neat next step.
     
  19. More useful I think if you could dock a regular-sized smartphone into the camera body rather than making it a one-piece unit.
     
  20. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Understood with the compromise of interchangeable glass...