Macroooooooooo, a few questions

emudojo

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Hi, been using the 7artisans 60mm 2.8 for all over a year and I feel good about it too the point in which maybe I'll get better result by upgrading.

I mainly shoot handheld (bugs) and I rarely focus stack my images.

My main gripe with the 7artisans is that as I increase magnification it gets darker so much that sometimes i need to open my aperture just to see and grab focus, then close it hoping I'll get something after the flash fires.

If that normal on all macro lenses, is aperture constant? Let's say on the olympus 60mm?.

I'm eyeing the laowa macro 50mm 2.8 because it does 2x. The 7artisans + extensions gets me to 2x but it's really hard to see a damn thing even wide open
 

PakkyT

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My main gripe with the 7artisans is that as I increase magnification it gets darker [snip]

If that normal on all macro lenses

It is normal for all lenses. As you increase magnification you are capturing a smaller portion of the scene so you are capturing a smaller amount of light.
 

emudojo

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It is normal for all lenses. As you increase magnification you are capturing a smaller portion of the scene so you are capturing a smaller amount of light.
Then besides auto focus and weather sealing, i should not expect any other quality of life improvements by moving to the laowa or olympus?, Laowa had higher magnification but then will that means twice the light loss?
 

Hendrik

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... gets me to 2x but it's really hard to see a damn thing even wide open
I'm not certain which camera you are using, but several Olympus cameras have Live View Boost which will violate WYSIWYG and increase the brightness of both the rear display and the viewfinder. Beyond that, I think you have already hinted at the major advantage of the Oly 60: focusing is always done at maximum aperture and stopping down is automatic.
 

emudojo

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I'm not certain which camera you are using, but several Olympus cameras have Live View Boost which will violate WYSIWYG and increase the brightness of both the rear display and the viewfinder. Beyond that, I think you have already hinted at the major advantage of the Oly 60: focusing is always done at maximum aperture and stopping down is automatic.
Em1mk2. I do use live view boost (when enabling focus peaking) assigned to a button but more often than not contrast is so low focus peaking does not even work witch forced me to use magnification and that... While standing and trying to get something in focus is hard lol.

Do you have a link to s resource explaining that feature of the olympus?
 

BrentC

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You can strap a small adjustable led light to your lens. This will help you to focus. This is what is usually used when out before the sun trying to get lazy, cold bugs.
 

Hoffelijk

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You probably have more contrast / focus if you focus from 3.5.
If you have one button left, you can lock the desired exposure with the AEL button so that you can get the desired exposure with the push of a button when you go back to the desired Aperture.
 

PakkyT

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Then besides auto focus and weather sealing, i should not expect any other quality of life improvements by moving to the laowa or olympus?, Laowa had higher magnification but then will that means twice the light loss?

Magnification is proportional to the focal length / distance so it all depends on how you achieve the magnification.

If you do it by increasing the focal length you can maintain brightness if you can maintain the f-stop value then the physical size of the aperture will get bigger which compensates for the light loss from the increased magnification. If instead you decrease the distance or you increase focal length by using extension tubes, then the aperture physically remains constant, so your f-stop value decreased and your image dims. As you noted, your only choice is to open up your aperture to compensate to get it bright enough again to allow you to manually focus.

To answer your question then, those other lenses would only improve this situation if they were longer in focal length with the same f-stop so you could shoot at the same distance get more magnification and a larger physical aperture to keep the brightness the same. The 50/2.8 would have to be a bit closer to give the same magnification as the 60/2.8 so would actually be a bit darker. And if it gets more magnification it will be because you can get even closer which will also make the image dimmer assuming no change to the f-stop. Unfortunately all the things you could do to make the image brighter kind of work against macro photography.
 

BrentC

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Other than an led to use as a focus light I also had luck using the focus assist light on my Olympus. I don't manual focus with the Olympus 60mm. I use AF. And I find the focus assist on the camera works in a lot of situations. But I always carry the flexible gooseneck led light I have.
 

emudojo

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Other than an led to use as a focus light I also had luck using the focus assist light on my Olympus. I don't manual focus with the Olympus 60mm. I use AF. And I find the focus assist on the camera works in a lot of situations. But I always carry the flexible gooseneck led light I have.
Interesting to know, when I tried auto focus with the 25 and macro tubes it was hit it miss tbh
 

BrentC

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Interesting to know, when I tried auto focus with the 25 and macro tubes it was hit it miss tbh

I have had really good result using AF. But if I do use 1:1 magnification then I don't use AF. I don't manual focus either. I will use the distance between lens and subject to focus. Slow move in and once in focus, snap the shot. Especially for moving bugs.

What camera do you have? If Oly then I think you would need the Oly 60mm to have good results with AF. And yes with tubes or diopter, AF becomes less useful. I would use distance as a focus
 

archaeopteryx

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If that normal on all macro lenses, is aperture constant?
What the discussion so far is attempting to articulate is effective aperture. While the conceptual models above are broadly in the right direction, I would recommend using the maths if an accurate assessment of tradeoffs between macro lens choices is desired.
 

Petrochemist

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Magnification is proportional to the focal length / distance so it all depends on how you achieve the magnification.
However you achieve your magnification as the image gets bigger it gets dimmer. The same amount of light from the subject is being spread over a larger image. There are only two things that can change this, getting more light on the subject (where a longer focal length can help if you are blocking the light from getting on the subject) or getting more into the camera by using a faster f number.

If using a supplementary lens (diopter) this decrease the focal length of the optics so that the same size physical aperture gives rise to a faster f-number (and conveniently cancelling out the light loss from increased magnification)
If something like extension tubes are used the effective aperture is smaller than the lens would have without the extension.
 

Hendrik

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Em1mk2. I do use live view boost (when enabling focus peaking) assigned to a button but more often than not contrast is so low focus peaking does not even work witch forced me to use magnification and that... While standing and trying to get something in focus is hard lol.

Do you have a link to s resource explaining that feature of the olympus?
Do you use: LV Close Up Settings/Live View Boost in Gear/D2?

When you're shooting in conditions that require flash, it may come down to rigging up some focusing light, no matter the lens. That said, I suspect the O60 would make things a good deal easier for you.
 

retiredfromlife

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Hi, been using the 7artisans 60mm 2.8 for all over a year and I feel good about it too the point in which maybe I'll get better result by upgrading.

I mainly shoot handheld (bugs) and I rarely focus stack my images.

My main gripe with the 7artisans is that as I increase magnification it gets darker so much that sometimes i need to open my aperture just to see and grab focus, then close it hoping I'll get something after the flash fires.

If that normal on all macro lenses, is aperture constant? Let's say on the olympus 60mm?.

I'm eyeing the laowa macro 50mm 2.8 because it does 2x. The 7artisans + extensions gets me to 2x but it's really hard to see a damn thing even wide open
I notice others have answered you main questions, so I will just give my thoughts on the Oy 60mm in very low light [night]

For low light focusing I find the Oly 60mm works very well. I take the majority of my close up shots at night. EM1.2 set to manual f11 and 1/160 for the flash. I use a small led light to assist focus, and the Oly 60 fosuses in nearly darkness. I turn the light away till it just iluminates the spiders, so it does not show any hot spots on the subject. Since auto focus seems to pick the area of greatest contrast to focus on I find that if the eyes are the the focus area they are mainly in focus.

I never use LV boost, and find I dont have to properly see the subject at night, just enough to frame up.

Even when I do the odd close up during the day I still use the same night settings as above and most ambient light does not effect the image

Don't know if this will be of any help :hmmm: since it mainly about Oly 60mm and auto focus at f11

Edit link to example
https://www.mu-43.com/threads/olympus-60mm-f-2-8-macro.33664/page-216#post-1452140
 
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