M43 vs Big 24 Megapixel APS-C

[Antigen]

Hi,

i have a question, a lot of friend tell me that actually chose a micro43 camera is a bad idea because the most camera use 16 megapixel respect to 24 megapixel of a simple camera like the M100

Ok, this is true, APS-C use very big sensor in term of megapixel.

But actually a 16 Megapixel sensor can win against an APS-C camera in term of quality?

Thanks

 

[Carbonman]

Assessing cameras by pixel count is pretty much useless. There is so much more involved - lens quality and size, in-camera image processing, how hard or easy it is to carry, and most importantly - what are you going to use it for?
If you're doing 30x40 prints for customers from low light, high-ISO images, m43 is probably not your first choice. If you shoot for a hobby and you want really good results in most cases, m43 is the perfect choice.
I use m43 for site assessments in my work, day and night. IBIS and hand holdability during longer exposures is excellent. I used to shoot professionally with 35mm film and medium format cameras. I'll never haul such heavy gear around again!

 

[Tool Crazy]

You do know that M43 have 20 megapixel cameras right? Anyways the two pictures below will answer your questions about image quality. Left to right, top to bottom order of cameras: E-M5 MK II m43 16mp sensor, G9 m43 20mp sensor, M100 canon aps-c 24 mp sensor, X-T2 Fujifilm aps-c 24mp sensor. First picture is in good light and the second image is in low light high ISO results. If you can't tell the difference or don't see much of a difference, it doesn't really matter which you go with based on mp count and sensor size alone. There are probably more important things to consider like body size and weight, lens selection, overall size and weight of lenses, handling, body styles, how good the af-c is, etc.

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https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...=1&x=-0.8948238249487671&y=0.1472421590797365

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https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/im...=1&x=-0.8948238249487671&y=0.1472421590797365

I also want to mention that canon aps-c sensors are not noticeably better than m43 with the reason being that they are using older sensor tech and their aps-c sensor chips are slightly smaller than other aps-c sensors. If you want a noticeable improvement over m43 you need to go with newer sony, nikon and fuji cameras.

 

[pake]

But actually a 16 Megapixel sensor can win against an APS-C camera in term of quality?

Yes.

 

[jimr.pdx]

You can visit sites like dxo and see scores for different sensors - but note a few things:

• This is sensor data only, and you cannot take an image with only a sensor. Lenses, lighting and other factors will make a big difference.
• The same sensor is used in many cameras with different scores, so other processing chips and settings are changing the scores, and therefore their scoring system cannot be precise.
• More than that, even dxo notes that two sensors with a small rating differential will likely produce no changes that a human will see. We can expect to see differences, in which case we will - after all our brains are sensors too, and also influenced by many factors. Including forums!

I have a Pentax K-5 with a score of 82 (aps-c with Pentax processing and an ISO80 setting). I have a GX1 (upper-50s score, , iso200 minimum). Both use 16Mpx sensors, both can use lenses both amazing and indifferent, both can do better than my abilities can consistently use. And in different conditions each one is better for my needs.
Oops, I just talked you into two cameras!

 

[wjiang]

But actually a 16 Megapixel sensor can win against an APS-C camera in term of quality?

Yes, one word - lenses.

With a similar generation of crop sensor, the lens choice is going to make a bigger difference.

 

[Pluttis]

The 20mp sensor that is used in Olympus cameras stacks up really well agains for example the 24mp APS-C sensor used in Fuji X-T2.

https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/fujifilm-vs-olympus/omd-em1-mark-ii-vs-fuji-xt2/#ISO-performance

 

[Bidkev]

As others have said, factors such as weight/cost/glass and innumerable other aspects of gear and it's useage come into play. I've owned the Canon 6D, 5Dmklll, and 7Dmkll, all 3 bodies being heavier and costlier than my m43's and I also owned L glass. I recently purchased the Olympus 75mm 1.8 and even mounted on the 16meg E-M10mkll, in normal daylight conditions, the images it produced surpassed any that I had taken with the aforementioned Canon gear. Not only were the images superior, the gear was lighter and less costly. I don't question as to why they are superior ie "is it the lens" "is it the sensor" I'm past all that at my stage of life, what matters to me is it "just is" the images speak for themselves. Shooting at night, I might be swayed the other way, but even most m43 modern sensors have little in it when compared to the older sensors of Canon, and how often do I shoot at night?

I also now carry 4 bodies and 4 lenses (easily) when out on a days shoot when previously I struggled to carry 2 of each.

M43 is now my gear of preferred choice, and there was no bigger sceptic than myself when I first came to this forum.

I doubt very much that my previous gear would have shown the facial hair shown in this image.

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Harajuku r (7) by Kevin Dickinson, on Flickr

 

[JohnJeffrey]

This is entirely subjective opinions based on my year(s): “yes” M43 sensors can perform quality output in many ways. I have both APS-C (Pentax) and M43 (Olympus), and yet prefer shooting film. If you are only measuring size, Then the argument is on paper. Every visualized image capture has hundreds of variables and every camera system, including the photographer, has compromises and limitations. Half a century ago, my photography mentor showed me and explained that a well done 35mm shot beats a sloppy 6x7cm shot! It’s not the camera’s fault.
Why M43? Workflows & kit sizes! A bad hip & cancer have slowed me! Toting a huge lens on a large body is a challenge now. There really are few bad choices in the tech tools available for photographers. Analyze your workflow preferences and needs. Astrophotographers especially need to consider “size”.

 

[Giiba]

Astrophotographers especially need to consider “size”.

But that is more about absolute aperture size (physical diameter) than sensor size. /endpointlessdiversion

The best current aps sensors perform at best 2/3 stop better than m43 sensors, and really the only aps system with high quality lenses is Fuji. With m43 and top quality lenses you'll probably do better than aps from Canon, Nikon, or Sony as they all have limited lenses for the format, or you'll be using big+heavy 35mm frame lenses on a crop sensor for odd angles of view for that 2/3 stop.

 

[cnyap]

M100 uses mediocre canon sensor, apsc cameras using Sony sensors are a step above the canon.

 

[ScottinPollock]

Astrophotographers especially need to consider “size”.

Agreed.

The best current aps sensors perform at best 2/3 stop better than m43 sensors

I might agree with that for middle of the road stuff. But high ISO long exposures light up an m43 sensor like a Christmas tree. I've had the GX85, G85, G9 and none of them were even close to my Nikon APS-C cameras.

 

[ooheadsoo]

I might agree with that for middle of the road stuff. But high ISO long exposures light up an m43 sensor like a Christmas tree. I've had the GX85, G85, G9 and none of them were even close to my Nikon APS-C cameras.

Is that good or bad?

 

[ScottinPollock]

Is that good or bad?

Bad. Serious red, blue, and green hot pixels. You can cancel much of it out with "long exposure NR", but you often times don't have time for that with Astro.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Bad. Serious red, blue, and green hot pixels. You can cancel it out with "long exposure NR", but you often times don't have time for that with Astro.

I see what you're saying. I only took my G9 out for astro once, and I definitely saw Christmas lights in DxO on that time.

 

[ac12]

My computation of the sensor sizes you specify are:
m4/3 16MP = 4,618 x 3,464
APS-C 24MP = 6,000 x 4,000
APS-C has 30% more pixels on the H axis and only 15% on the V axis. But the APC-sensor is wider than the m4/3 sensor.
HOWEVER, IMHO, this in not a valid comparison, as you are comparing a medium MP m4/3 sensor against a higher MP APS-C sensor.

So let's do a more realistic comparison with both high MP sensors; 20MP m4/3 and 24MP APS-C.
m4/3 20MP = 5,163 x 3,872
APS-C 24MP = 6,000 x 4,000
APS-C has only 16% more pixels on the H axis and only an insignificant 3% on the V axis.
In my experience, you can't see a 16% difference, unless you are making a HUGE print. And ONLY if you use the entire width of the image. If you crop horizontally to match the 4x3 ratio, the APS-C is essentially the same as the m4/3.
As you can see the Vertical axis has essentially the same number of pixels, only 3% different.

So this deals with the sensor.

As was mentioned, the lens is a critical factor.
Unless you use pro grade optical quality lens on both cameras, you will not be making full use of either sensor.
So any comparison has to be using a comparable grade/optical quality lens on both cameras.
I can make an APS-C camera have a worse image than a m4/3 camera, simply by using a low grade lens on the APS-C camera and a pro grade lens on the m4/3 camera.

 

[wjiang]

FYI the m4/3 bodies with Sony sensors do way better at controlling long exposure noise. The Panasonic ones (including likes of the E-M1 Mk1 that use a Panasonic sensor) are distinctly inferior in this regard. Nikon use modified Sony sensors.

 

[Machi]

Agreed.


I might agree with that for middle of the road stuff. But high ISO long exposures light up an m43 sensor like a Christmas tree. I've had the GX85, G85, G9 and none of them were even close to my Nikon APS-C cameras.

Panasonic' sensors are inherently bad for long exposures. According to optyczne.pl, Olympus E-M1II has 2× worse dark noise after 180 seconds than Nikon D7500 and G9 is almost 4× worse than E-M1II!

 

[JohnJeffrey]

Agreed.


I might agree with that for middle of the road stuff. But high ISO long exposures light up an m43 sensor like a Christmas tree. I've had the GX85, G85, G9 and none of them were even close to my Nikon APS-C cameras.

I don’t disagree! I keep my Pentax K3II for the longer, slower, exposures-as a field camera. My Olympus Pen-F rocks on the street and for travel, by comparison! Different tools for various works, imo.