M43 and the siren call of FF

davidzvi

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To be honest after jumping through the different sites of Amin's forum-sphere, Mu-43 probably has the least tolerance for other system talk. I don't think this thread suffers from confirmation bias, it's just the usual old grouches that come on here to troll and not contribute anything objective.
Well two of them are not system specific. And m4/3 seems (from an outside observer's point of view) to have at least 3x the activity. That probably leads to some of it.
 

Lawrence A.

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I was just gifted a brand new black Pen F and the Olympus 12-40mm f2.8, so I'm not interested in a full frame kit. What might interest me would be a fixed 40mm full frame digital similar to my old Olympus 35 SP -- with an optical viewfinder, preferably. But the quality of the Pen F images blows me away. If I want small, I can put the Panasonic 20 or the Olympus 14-42 pancake, and it's tiny. Handling the body itself reminds me of having an old Barnack in my hands, and the shutter sound (for those of us who care about the music in a shutter) is lovely.

M43 prints as large as I ever want to, so no issue there. Even when I was shooting mostly black and white 4x5 film, I preferred a print I could hold -- typically something on an 11x14 sheet with at least 1 inch borders, so 9x12.

Full frame has its place and I certainly do not feel any hostility toward the format, which would be kinda dumb; it is something I just don't need. If I go to a bigger sensor system, it will be to get a digital back to my Hasselbald 500CM. I love working slowly on a tripod, like in my large format days,

As for the belabored issue of subject isolation: I never heard the word "bokeh" before going digital, and in any case some of the faster lenses give me all the subject isolation I need. But I was more of an f64 kind of shooter in the past. The depth of field of the smaller sensor/ focal length/ POV works for me more than it works against me. Even in the snapshot below at 2.8 on the 12-40 there is enough separation between my sister and the background to emphasize the subject. And I like having the swan boats in the Boston Public Garden recognizable and oof. If I wanted more blur, I'd have had to use the 45 f1.8 or go even longer, but the system could have done it with the right lense.

All of which is to say, the siren call for me is a digital back to my Hasselblad. As in the old days, I still think of 35mm not as full frame (my m43 sensor is a full frame 43 sensor after all, and 35mm is only a portion of my 6x6 Hasselblad frame) but as a hand held small format. In terms of IQ: my Fuji X10 probably gives as good IQ as my 35mm film cameras.

If anyone wants to donate an M9, though, I'll happily take it off your hands.:D
 
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davidzvi

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Naw, I think there are just more mulish geriatrics on this forum that need to get back on their meds. :rolleyes:
... and your contribution here is exactly what? Maybe what we need is fewer arrogant children.
And that leaves me, I could use some fun meds, really. And with only 2 kids I guess I shouldn't complain. Though can be a bit arrogant at times so.....
 

Lawrence A.

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Full frame what? 6x6? 645? 4x5? 1/2.3? 43?

The term really only means all the frame, but what the hell frame are we talking about? Making a 35mm standard negative size a standard for what "full frame" means makes no sense at all. To me, as an old custom printer from film days "FF" meant print it all (8x10 FF meant print the whole frame on an 8x10 sheet, with, thus, wider borders, necessarily, on the long sides. To refer to one given sensor size as "full frame" is a meaningless bit of confusion, seems to me. Nothing against the 35mm size, but it really is only one among many formats, each of which is full frame in its own right.
 

bigboysdad

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Having been on this forum for a couple of years and seen his contributions on this as well as other forums, I can confidently say that @Jonathan F/2 's not really like that. My take is that he likes all camera systems, that's all.

Edit: Actually, looking at his posts on another forum, yeah, he's aaaangry!
 
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fortwodriver

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I'm guessing many of you are waiting for the sun to come out from behind the clouds where you are. Nifty to debate this, but I'm pretty sure if you grab your m43 camera you're thinking of trading away, and go out there and travel and take pictures, you will get better pictures.

Regardless of the format you choose, you still have to "be there" and take the shot.

I'm sticking with m43 for digital...
 

fredlong

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I'm guessing many of you are waiting for the sun to come out from behind the clouds where you are. Nifty to debate this, but I'm pretty sure if you grab your m43 camera you're thinking of trading away, and go out there and travel and take pictures, you will get better pictures.

Regardless of the format you choose, you still have to "be there" and take the shot.

I'm sticking with m43 for digital...
f/4* and be there!

*f/8 in "full frame" equivalent
 

Turbofrog

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f/4* and be there!

*f/8 in "full frame" equivalent
Unfortunately, for M4/3 users it needs to be "f1.2* and be there" since the ol' "f/8 and be there" is attributed to Weegee Fellig who shot with a 4x5 Speed Graphic, which makes 135-format film look like a postage stamp.

*f/2.4 in "full frame" equivalent
 

fredlong

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Unfortunately, for M4/3 users it needs to be "f1.2* and be there" since the ol' "f/8 and be there" is attributed to Weegee Fellig who shot with a 4x5 Speed Graphic, which makes 135-format film look like a postage stamp.

*f/2.4 in "full frame" equivalent
Logic doesn't come into play in full frame discussions! ;)
 

Rambling Sam

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Oh, the E-1 ... I bought one new back in 2005/6 and still have and occasionally use it. I'm thinking of taking some shots of the same subject with this and also the E-3 and my E-M1, (using the 50mm f2 macro lens) so people can see how much digital image quality has progressed over the past decade.

Getting back to 'Weegee' Fellig, he's largely remembered for using a 5x4 Speed Graphic and his scenes of urban life, crime, injury and death, but he was also employed by Stanley Kubrick as a 'special effects advisor' for the film 'Dr Strangelove' and Sellers mimicked Fellig's accent in this. Probably less well-known is that he also used a Nikon rangefinder camera, and for many of the 'Dr Strangelove' shots he used a Zenit 3m with the f3.5 Industar lens!
 

fortwodriver

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Oh, the E-1 ... I bought one new back in 2005/6 and still have and occasionally use it. I'm thinking of taking some shots of the same subject with this and also the E-3 and my E-M1, (using the 50mm f2 macro lens) so people can see how much digital image quality has progressed over the past decade.
Actually, looking back at some photos I'm certain I considered "too noisy" or with "odd colour shifts" from the E-1, they look much better now. RAW processing itself seems much better now than it was back then. ISO 800 looks surprisingly ok.

My point with paraphrasing "f8 and be there" wasn't so much about who said it or lived by it. If you go out and take photos, you can spend more time talking about your photos, which is probably more useful. Run what you brung...
 
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