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M4/3 Resolution future ?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by gilo9652, Apr 16, 2015.

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  1. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    Dear fellow M4/3 lovers,

    Me, like you, loves the system a lot. I actually born into it and started my photography 3 years ago into the first em5. Now upgraded to the mkii.
    We all know how using olympus system is a lot of fun, and the quality is good too.

    But recently in the appearing of new mirrorless cameras, like the NX1, the question of resolution is raised up again.
    When already few alternatives that offers better image quality are available i would like to ask those that knows and understand the physics behind and the probability of olympus coming in the future with a better resolution camera? Is it even possible with the current PRO lenses that is already exist?

    Its no doubt that the glass available is the most diverse and top notch, but if olympus is not coming in the near future with a better sensor and resolution, its just clearly stays behind...


    Thanks for those that can shed some light on the issue,

    Gil.
     
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  2. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    There are rumours of a 20Mp sensor coming soon - maybe in the E-M1 mk II. Personally, I'm OK with the current 16Mp, but I would like to see lower noise at higher ISO settings. I don't see any reason why 20Mp would present particular challenges (no higher pixel density than the current Sony RX100).
     
  3. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    In terms of physics, does olympus bounded to a certain amount of resolution, detail, dynamic range, low light performance - thus, image quality - due to the PRO lenses already exists ?
     
  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Yep, you soon won't able to take a decent photograph with a m4/3 camera and everything produced so far will be utter rubbish, as every other brand will have awesome megapixels by comparison.

    Will this meme ever die?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    The "Pro" lenses (and others) work fine with the E-M5 ii hi-res stitching mode, which is 40-odd MP, so I don't think lenses are a limitation.
     
  6. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    OzRay i think its a legitimate question. Comparing other mirrorless models, thats a main thing that put this great system of olympus a bit behind. And its in a crucial field- image quality(from its various perspective). A legit question in a field where thousands of dollars are being invested.

    pdk42, as nice as the high res mode is, its still a high tech manipulation of sensor moving. Im talking of an inherent improve in sensor and... you got it
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jrsilva

    jrsilva Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 1, 2012
    Portugal
    Jaime
    I'm OK with the 16 mpx because the image quality of the OM-D + Premium glass is already very very good.
    For me the only advantage in having 20 mpx (or more) is the ability to make heavier crops on the photos.
    But I don't think Olympus or Panasonic will keep the 16 mpx forever. It may take some time, but they will push resolution some time.
    With so many tech improvements in theses days it's expected that people are more anxious to have more, bigger, better.
    Let's be patient, it will come in a near future. While we wait, let's enjoy and take pictures.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I don't think it is legitimate. It's the same rubbish that has followed Olympus/Panasonic since the 4/3 days. That's all that you ever heard on DPR, for example, when the megapixel wars were a going concern. Now we seem to be returning to those megapixel wars for some unknown reason.

    Tell me first what you can't do, rather than suggest what Olympus/Panasonic can't do.
     
  9. macro

    macro Mu-43 Regular

    150
    Jan 22, 2012
    Some humans and MP are a funny thing sometimes. In all the years of digital cameras and the evolution of MP, I've never wanted to go back or stay with less MP. Funny that.

    I mean I have the ability to lower the resolution in the cameras and yet have never dropped it for some strange reason. I wonder how many that say that 16MP is enough would drop a 20MP camera back if they got one. I guess some would since they are content with what they have. Probably just a me thing, but I would never go back.

    All the best and interesting beasts us humans. Progress is good.

    Danny.
     
  10. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    Sony just developed a new 20MP four third sensor that will probably be used by Olympus:

    http://www.43rumors.com/olympus-may-uses-that-new-sony-20mp-four-thirds-sensor/

    Anyway more resolution does NOT mean better image quality. The 6000$ Nikon D4s uses a 16MP FX sensor and also the Canon 1D are just 18MP.
    Yes, you have the D810 and the 5DS so it just depends what you need. And Nokia Lumia has a 41MP 1/1.2-inch sensor...

    Anyway I've read somewhere that with an handheld shot you cannot get much more than 12MP of actual resolution. I do not know how accurate this estimate is but I think that it says something. Unless you are always shooting on a tripod static subjects with self timer or with a very high shutter speed you wont get much more, no matter what.
    Then there is the actual measured resolution found on sites like DxO with different lenses: for example with the D810 (in ideal conditions) it goes from 21 to 35 for primes and 13 to 29 for zooms. And to get more then 30MP you need top Zeiss lenses or something close.

    http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best...no-advance-over-D800E/Best-Primes-on-the-D810

    Then there is the crop idea, but again if you start with an actual low resolution cropping it will just make the problem more visible.

    Yes, E-M5ii hi-res pictures downscaled are great in term of details and resolution maybe even colors but in many (most?) pictures that just does not make any difference.

    I think there is only one reason for m43 higher MP count and it is marketing so Oly and Pana should probably go with 20MP. Or with something that gives, for example, more dynamic range like the organic sensors and this could, maybe, make a real human visible difference for some pictures. Even if buyers look at specs, not pictures...

    This morning I've just seen this two portraits: hand held, low shutter speed, one with high iso, sooc jpeg, with the kit zoom neither at best aperture and focal lenght and there is plenty of resolution for me:

    https://www.mu-43.com/threads/61907/page-2#post-763162
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  11. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    I think they need it for competitiveness in the sales war. Not because photographers really need it to make their images better.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  12. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    For all those that want more megapixels, the doors to other systems are open and welcoming you in. There's no point in bleating about things here, when the green, green, grass is easily within reach.

    But then again, isn't this the best place to put down m4/3?
     
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  13. macro

    macro Mu-43 Regular

    150
    Jan 22, 2012
    Already done Ray. Then again why did I choose m4/3 as well, was it the MP, nope otherwise I wouldn't be here. So lets all go back to 1MP or maybe increase it to 4MP, what were we thinking.

    All the best.

    Danny.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    Qusetion:

    Given the current pro lenses, isn't a higher megapixel camera will provide with a better detail and dynamic range? Sometimes when i look on landscape shots, you can see the lack of depth, colors, dynamic range and details(which is still good on olympus) compared to a bigger, higher res sensor. So the question is, can olympus bridge this gap given they still use the current pro lenses ?(in terms of physics, not just your idea, thats why i said only those that understand)

    what about iso performance? will it be easy for olympus to drop the lowest iso to 100 instead of 200?
     
  15. PowerHawk2015

    PowerHawk2015 Mu-43 Regular

    35
    Mar 8, 2015
    Australia
    I don't think it's legitimate either, Ozray is on the money. Unrealistic expectations is what the op is looking for.
    In most areas, m43 has surpassed apsc, and competing with FF in some areas. The pixel density of the 16mp m43 sensor is eqv to FF 38mp density.
    The OP has a camera (M5 MK2) that produces resolution that competes with medium format (high res mode), yet people want more, unfathomable!
    I'm quite happy with 16mp, look at the RX100 and high iso, the noise is intolerable, that's what will happen with more mp's crammed in.

    There are Pro's using m43, why would they come from FF if the resolution is less?
     
  16. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    I don't get your attitude guys, i'm only asking.
     
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  17. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Melodrama is so twee.
     
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  18. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Ten years of constant putdowns about megapixels starts to wear thin after a while. Even someone with the patience of a corpse eventually wants to rise up and knuckle the clown that persists with this crap.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. gilo9652

    gilo9652 Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Apr 10, 2015
    Gil
    try to stay specific to the subject of the thread.
    I asked an informative relevant questions, and would be happy to see a comment of an engineer or physicist to shed some light of what are future possibilities regarding improving details, dynamic range, iso performance on the current olympus system. i said resolution but actually thats what i meant to ask. taking into account that it keeps the pro lenses use.

    the question came because right now fuji, samsung and sony offers better image quality in their mirrorless systems.

    thank you.
     
  20. PowerHawk2015

    PowerHawk2015 Mu-43 Regular

    35
    Mar 8, 2015
    Australia
    Whatever you do, don't buy a Sony A7s, it only has 12mp.
    You also don't want to buy the Nikon D4s, it's only 16mp.
    I'd also skip the Canon 1Dx, only 18mp.

    Those 3 cameras share a couple of things in common.
    Low mp count, and outstanding high iso capability.
    I'd rather Olympus stayed with 16mp sensors and work on high iso, like being able to get clean noise free images at iso 6400 or 12800, maybe even move towards 14mp sensors.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
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