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M4/3 format showing very strong...

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by agentlossing, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    So with all of the new models and (especially) lenses from several manufacturers, our format is showing really strong right now. I'm wondering how all of this will stack up against Fuji's continued refinements and Sony's full-steam-ahead attitude towards mirrorless. Do we really have a market for so many different system options in mirrorless cameras, or will someone have to go the way of the dodo birds (read: Nikon and Canon's mirrorless models) in your opinion? And how do you all think M4/3 stands in light of the current lineup?

    Personally I think we have a wonderfully full system at our disposal, and I don't see how either of the other big mirrorless systems out there are ever going to have the same breadth and variability of options, yet I know both Sony and Fuji are determined and (in Sony's case especially) economically strong rivals. So I would hate to see the muscle of the other ones keep M4/3 from dominating, as I think it should.
  2. Darren Bonner

    Darren Bonner Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 1, 2013
    Poole UK
    We do need some Telephoto lenses in our line up, pro grade f2-2.8 and cheaper f4 versions, camera bodies will continue to improve.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. imahawki

    imahawki Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 12, 2014
    Here's my take, personally. I think Canon and Nikon should probably back out of the market because they're too hesitant to produce a killer mirrorless product for fear of cannibalizing they're DSLRs. I say that as a former EOS-M owner. Two lenses (in the US), poor auto-focus, not great ergonomics, etc. Sad.

    Being newer to M43 I'm not as sure what the rest of the landscape looks like. Fuji has a proprietary system right? And so does Leica but they're very high priced? And then Sony makes mirrorless compacts as well as and DSLRs. I guess however unlikely it might be, it would be nice to see one more manufacturer join the M43 format. That would almost assure its dominance in the mirrorless world. But in the meantime, its still a bit of a unique, and good situation having two manufacturers supporting a single, compatible format and I hope it continues to stay strong.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Theories about the death of Olympus digital started around 2004 (when the E-1 was released) and were raised every time a new body came out (predicated on how great Canon and Nikon DSLR were by comparison). I sense a pattern. ;) 
    • Like Like x 1
  5. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    There are, IMO, too many vendors for the market, and many are deeper pocketed than Oly (maybe less so than Panny).

    Sony, however, just reported RECORD losses. The imaging division is doing well, but it's on the strength of their sensors sales. Otherwise, they are bleeding big time, and will likely shut down their mobile division, and sell off TVs (sensors, movie studios and game console is what's keeping the afloat)

    I think Fuji has likely found their niche and will only be challenged by Canon or Nikon.

    For me, personally, m43 is more affordable and better sized than the Sony offerings (FF lenses are expensive and big, APS-C lenses stink), faster focusing and more compact than Fuji (though I do admire their equipment). I think their biggest challenger are things like the LX100, because the compactness is there. Still, Panny had to release that camera. Better to cannibalize your own sales, then let someone else eat up your sales.

    Not all these vendors will make it. I think Samsung started far too late, and Oly is the weakest player. But Sony might have to hack and slash, and could fall back just on sensors. Panny seems to lack strategy (or their strategy keeps shifting). IMO, Fuji has the cleanest strategy and they are executing to it, though Oly also has a clear strategy, just some financial issues. There will be losers here, but it's probably 3-5 years out, so just go take pictures :) 
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rbelyell

    rbelyell Mu-43 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2013
    Mountains of NY
    and somehow sony shutting down is a GOOD thing? m4/3 must 'dominate'? wow, where does this stuff come from? ever heard the phrase 'high water floats all boats'? having more companies try to innovate benefits all of us in this hobby; having less competition means less incentive to innovate and thats bad, not good. its great fun to have gear you like. its a big mistake to confuse ones gear with ones ego. lighten up fellas, have a beer, pet a dog, enjoy your 'stuff' but dont let stuff define you. live and let live, and enjoy the fruits of others success.

    btw, none of these mirrorless systems are 'proprietary' from the camera-use standpoint as adapters allow mirrorless cams to be used with a huge variety of manual focus lenses--including leica. from the lens standpoint all, including m4/3, are 'proprietary'. indeed, some panny lenses do not operate with a full feature set on oly cams.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    ??? I don't see any of the above responses reflecting this, IMO.
  8. imahawki

    imahawki Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 12, 2014
    Neither do I.
  9. val

    val Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 19, 2013
    thread is confusing.

    my two cents:

    M43 is growing, it is improving and all the positive media response about Panasonic/Olympus at Photokina only improves public perception.

    Overall, the more quality mirrorless choice we have, the more people will consider it and the more pros that switch over, the better.

    I really like Sony products, they just don't have the lenses and I prefer the overall design of M43 cameras/menus etc.

    You all know that I'm a big fan of Fujifilm and I think Fujifilm and M43 can exist side by side for different purposes.

    Olympus has had the better stills cameras compared to Panasonic with good JPEGs, IBIS and using the same sensor throughout the range.

    Panasonic is now using the GX7 sensor in a good range of cameras (unlike before where the G and the GF series were using the GH2 sensor) and they've improved their JPEG engine enough where I'd be happy to use it and for my purposes, I rather get a Lumix.

    It also helps that M43 marketing has improved, say what you want about marketing but Canikon have it downpat and that helps prolong their image.
  10. DoofClenas

    DoofClenas Who needs a Mirror! Subscribing Member

    Nov 9, 2012
    Traverse City, MI
    Or they could join the club....Bwahhahhahahhahahhahahahah!

  11. rklepper

    rklepper Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 19, 2012
    Iowa, USA
    I am really hoping for a great 300 or 400 f/4. :) 
  12. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Who are the fools running Canon?

    All they need to do is put a better AF system in the M, and they could sell that. Adding a VF and pop-up flash would also help, but it just needs to be able to auto focus. Their current M lenses are incredible little machines (11-22, 22, and 18-55 -- didn't try the 55-250)
  13. 0dBm

    0dBm Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jun 30, 2011
    Western United States
    As long as Nikon and Canon's offerings add to the overall revenue stream even if the particular divisions do not, by themselves, "break even," those two behemoths will continue to offer their mirrorless products; particularly WHEN they see that this segment of the market is becoming stronger.
  14. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I think the people whose viewpoint is that all the fish can fit happily in the pond is a little naive. These are big corporations, by and large there aren't a lot of people passionate about making cameras - they're passionate about turning a profit so the shareholders are happy.

    Far from proving that M4/3 is doing well, photokina this year is perhaps illustrating that the pond is getting really crowded. Hence me starting this discussion, which is really just me musing, but there you have it.
  15. monkeymashbutton

    monkeymashbutton Mu-43 Regular

    Jun 10, 2014
    I jumped ship from Canon last year and contemplated Fuji, Sony, Olympus, and Panasonic. I like to shoot portraits, and Fuji and Sony didn't have any native glass near the quality/price of m43. I think they have little to offer the mid-budget shooter. They can't match Oly's 45 or 25 or the Panny 20. If they don't flush out that segment of their lens lineups, they won't win me away from m43.
  16. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    This past week's been sooooo freaking exciting for M4/3 owners.

    I was a Canon DSLR owner for a long, long time...I've owned everything from Rebels to the venerable 1D Mark III and everything in between. Only two Canon announcements ever excited me: The 5D Mark II and the 40 STM. Other than that...they always were - and certainly have been since - very lukewarm. Meanwhile, M4/3 is one exciting release/announcement after another.

    Sony...meh. Sure, they have great bodies. But they trip up on lenses. The NEX-6 was my #1 choice for a body when I decided to ditch DSLR and go mirrorless. But...their 50 had a bad QC track record and the UWA zoom was nowhere to be seen. Same with Fuji...they dragged their heels on the UWA zoom and the 56 for so long (pushing back the release dates by something like 18 months) that I got tired of waiting and went Oly. Then the A7/A7R came out and I thought I was going to have to ditch M4/3. Then saw that they have a bunch of ho-hum slow lenses at premium prices. So...I stayed with M4/3. No regrets!
  17. AussiePhil

    AussiePhil Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Jun 1, 2014
    Canberra, ACT, Aust
    Fully Agree, I'd even settle for F5.6 in really long glass, 400mm+
    • Like Like x 1
  18. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I'm doing just that. However, I think you're missing the point. Ever since I bought my E-1, all I have heard is that 4/3s is a dead end system. That doesn't seem to be the case, as Olympus had a vision and has held onto that vision and continued with camera development despite huge setbacks. Yet there are still people who consider m4/3s a dead end system, now that the likes of Sony are producing FF mirrorless cameras, as an example. Many suddenly equate that to a much better mirrorless system and again put down m4/3s.

    You suggest that more competition, more choice, is a good thing. It isn't always the case, as often it can become a race to the bottom, or one of killing off competition. Is it such a good thing that Sony are willing to sell their mirrorless cameras at a price equal to or lower than a m4/3 camera? That kills competition and eventually choice. Sony hasn't had a great track record since buying out Konica-Minolta, their DSLRs didn't make a dent into Nikon/Canon sales, so are they now trying to simply oust m4/3s? Put enough money into it and they can, but not for the sake of innovation or anything else, just market dominance.

    So if m4/3 is doing well under such competition and pressure, that's something to be pleased about. It is just stuff, but it's 'stuff' that has allowed people to do many things that other 'stuff' hasn't. Also, everyone has 'stuff' that they have an affinity towards because that 'stuff' is designed so well, works so well and has stood the test of time compared to other competing 'stuff'. If everything to you is just 'stuff', then I don't think that you have a passion for anything, certainly not when it comes to creativity.
  19. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    I agree, but thankfully (for us) Sony keeps tripping up with lenses. They don't have an impressive line-up for the E-mount, and it's downright disappointing for the FE-mount. I talked to a guy yesterday who picked up an A7 a week or so ago...and he has the kit lens. He was lamenting the lack of lenses as well, and making fun of Sony for "announcing" lenses only to tell consumers that they'll be available for purchase in late 2015. But...still...that big sensor is a big draw...still, I think there are still plenty of people out there who realize that a good body is only half the equation and lenses are important too.
  20. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    What really annoys me is when people suggest that m4/3s is not a professional or a professional capable system and that you need something with a larger sensor. That meme comes from pure ignorance and maybe some degree of delusion. Just now I had to knock back a very interesting corporate assignment that arose from some previous work, because of family circumstances that had to take precedence. Corporate clients do not engage you based on your equipment, but on what you are able to produce to meet their needs. You, as the photographer, must decide what is necessary to achieve those needs but too many seem to think that it must start with N or C.
    • Like Like x 3
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