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M4/3 dominance to come?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Giiba, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
  2. RnR

    RnR Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Hasse
    Why does m43 need to unseat dlsr's? Whats wrong with having different tools for different jobs?
     
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  3. MJL

    MJL Mu-43 Regular

    199
    Feb 24, 2016
    Katikati, New Zealand
    Marinus
    Recently read a story about computers. It referenced back to the days of the cowboys: when their horse died, even when they were in the desert, they would take the saddle with them and walked out. The horse was the consumable but the saddle was what they got used to and tailored to their requirements so they would not have pain while sitting in the saddle etc.

    Same as with computers, the keyboard, mouse and screen are the interfaces that we use many hours a day. No longer am I happy with a laptop, I've tailored my setup and the computer (CPU/drives) itself gets replaced but the expensive monitor, trackball on the left and the 300 dollar keyboard stay in place because the latter three items are what I use to interact with all the time. I have an ASUS PC, a Dell monitor, a Kensington trackball and a customized Leopold (mechanical) keyboard. No longer can one manufacturer supply me with all the goodies that fit my needs.

    I see the same thing in photography and the point the chap is making is important: we get used to particular POV and get used to the different lenses with their quirks and colors and sharpness and bokeh. Lenses do not need replacing as often as the bodies and lenses that can be used on camera's from different manufacturers makes perfect sense. Why stop at two manufacturers? The more the merrier....
     
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  4. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    As long as they continue to make bodies, lenses, and accessories I don't care how dominant they become.
     
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  5. adamsmt2013

    adamsmt2013 Mu-43 Regular

    61
    Aug 31, 2013
    Every person I show my EM1 to is jealous that they do not have it, being subjected to using their entry-level DSLR.
     
  6. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    The problem is that you can read that article and conclude that the future lies in the one inch sensor.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. JamesD172

    JamesD172 Mu-43 Regular

    88
    Aug 18, 2016
    James Dolezal
    Which obviously would never happen, due to DOF control differences alone.
     
  8. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    It's not about "need"
    It's a question of where the market will go... I'm sure the dslr will be decades in the unseating.


    The only reason that won't happen is that Nikon is the only company making a 1" ILC system; and that will never be an open mount like m4/3.

    Technologically speaking smaller sensor will continue to improve same as m4/3 but the more time passes the further behind all other mirrorless entries to the market will be in depth of lens system choices. And that is the very thing that has maintained the dominance of Canikon; the only system that competes with those at the moment two is m4/3.

    @MJL@MJL has this right, Oly and Pany could both die as camera body manufacturers and still make money on lenses; that won't happen but Oly certainly could make a go of making lenses only. There are all those FF patents by Oly, I'd be surprised if they're not planning to make Sony FE mount lenses but that's a different discussion.
     
  9. Leighgion

    Leighgion Mu-43 Regular

    116
    Aug 1, 2012
    Madrid, Spain
    Leigh L Pang
    That YI looks cool, and it is nice to finally see a company other than Panasonic and Olympus produce an M43 camera for normal people at a price point that actually can compete with entry level DSLRs. It's a great thing for the format. If the YI is successful and stays in production, maybe one day I'll be able to afford one.

    That said, I think that article is packed with copious amounts of wishful thinking and willful blindness.

    No matter how good software voodoo gets, it's never going to be the same as having superior physics on your side and the article itself admits that in-camera processing is a factor in all digital cameras, so if we're objective, any advances would raise the quality bar for everybody, not just M43.

    M43 can certainly improve and carve out a bigger niche, but I think time of any higher end camera tech "dominating" is really over. DSLRs had a time of dominance because they were so much better than point & shoots that they sold to working pros and enthusiasts alike, but now the market has been carved up into smaller pieces. Smartphones have displaced point & shoots among the general public. Enthusiasts and pros are divided between DSLRs and multiple mirrorless systems. I don't see that "openness," as theoretically nice as it is, is helping M43 practically distinguish itself that much in the market.
     
  10. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Same as the difference between aps c and m43 and yet here we are.
     
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    -Ish. In round numbers, maybe?

    M4/3 is ~0.7 stops smaller than APS-C. 1" is 1 stop smaller than M4/3.

    Really the main issue is not in 1" technology or the quality of the images, which is really quite good, it's simply that there are no 1" ILC systems that have lenses available for them. The fast short-range cams like the RX100 III-V and LX10 don't have the flexibility of a wide range zoom available, and the long-zoom cams like the FZ2000/RX10 III don't have the availability of small fast primes for low-light. Even the f1.4 lens on the LX10 is only between ~24-28mm before it drops to f2 (if I recall correctly), and you'd need it to be f1.2 to be equivalent to a little cheap lens like the 20mm/1.7...

    And so even if you spend the $2500+ needed to get both 1" fixed lens cameras, you still would be limited in low-light, wide angle, and macro photography. You can easily build a competent full system with that money in M4/3, and presumably APS-C as well.
     
  12. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    When it comes to dof control, aps-c doesn't really have an advantage over m4/3...

    If shallow dof is your end all be all then those expensive FF bodies and lenses are increasingly under pressure from the new wave of mirrorless medium format offerings. Then you'll have so shallow you'll need a tripod again... *shudder*

    I feel bad for Canikon as their unwillingness to make pro grade aps-c lenses combined with their "upgrade path" pricing of FF bodies and lenses will increasingly leave them a smaller segment to fight over.
     
  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Nah, I don't think so. The 44x33 "mini-MF" sensors have f/2 lenses at the very fastest, and most of the primes are f2.8 or even slower. So you get DoF equivalent to about f1.5 or f2.2 at the most. It's not hard to find lenses galore with those speeds in FF, and many that are even faster.

    For the foreseeable future, FF still has the practical advantage in shallow DoF, if that's what you're into.
     
  14. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Northumberland
    "M4/3 dominance to come?"
    I sincerely hope not.
    The whole idea of a certain sensor size and lens-mount spec dominating a market is against progress and value.

    What I'd like to see is a slower release of new models with more careful thought to upgrades,
    but the opposite is happening.
    Maybe there are profits to be made right now and everyone can see that diminishing as time marches on...
     
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  15. MJL

    MJL Mu-43 Regular

    199
    Feb 24, 2016
    Katikati, New Zealand
    Marinus
    Is it just me or does the shape of the body remind of the old Leica shape from film days (and the logo a mall round red dot)?.
     
  16. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    I think this is what will determine survival vs death for camera companies today. The heyday of rapid technological progress for digital cameras is over and consumers are returning to the pre-digital mode of camera consumption. I think Olympus has taken this to heart with recent cameras on a 3'ish year release cycle. All of the big companies have cetainly slowed.


    I'm sure that is on purpose :friends:
     
  17. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    By my math there is a 1.33x and 1.35x crop difference.
     
  18. RnR

    RnR Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Hasse
    Well since we are talking about decades, and pulling predictions out of dark regions, I predict that phones will unseat m43. Curved sensors, quantum dot tech, hardware AI based noise reduction, zooms with no moving parts, and photonic meta materials will enable very high IQ f1.4 super zooms in your standard 9mm thick smart phone :)
     
  19. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    It'll be the holo-imager from Star Trek that replaces m4/3, that or f/0.1 lenses on our phones... man that'll be all lens and screen running off of microscopic processors.
     
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  20. RnR

    RnR Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Hasse
    You make a good point... by then we won't even have phones. We'll be launching micro lens drones that will beam back a torrent of data to our smart retina's for post processing in the Facebook approved neural bioprocessor.

    And then the Adobe Cloud software crashes...
     
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