Looking for a simple JPEG-Rotating tool

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by Stephan, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. Stephan

    Stephan Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Apr 21, 2010
    Stavanger (Norway)
    Hi you all!

    I'm a relative newbie concerning digital photography. I might make now a stupid assumption, or ask something obvious, so please bear with me. :redface:

    When I rotate pictures (jpeg straight out of camera) and save them again I notice that the filesize decreases quite a bit using different software (Windows viewer, Photofunstudio 4.0 from Panasonic, IrfanView). As the resolution stays the same there must be some extra compression happening within the respective programs, most probably with extra loss of picture information.

    My questions:
    1. Am I right in the first place? Or am I being stupid?
    2. Is there a simple program around that allows me to rotate pictures (+-90 degrees) and save them again to the hard disc, without loosing picture information (and keep the EXIF data as well)?
    3. I have the feeling that at least IrfanView should be able to handle lossless picture rotation, but I can't find anything about that. Am I missing something?

    Thanks a lot for your help!

    Greetings from Stavanger, Stephan
     
  2. Brian S

    Brian S Mu-43 Top Veteran Charter Member

    714
    Apr 11, 2009
    As of late, I've been using Windows Explorer in XP and Win 7 to rotate JPEGS.

    and it does reduce the image quality if the picture is too big, I'm glad you brought this up!

    I will check on a different machine as well, the one now is somewhat limited for memory.
     
  3. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    I think you shouldn't rotate them with a graphic tool (which will effectively rewrite hence recompress your datas in jpeg), but rather insert an exif value to indicate camera orientation and subsequently let graphical viewers which are exif aware do on-screen rotation but not image rotation.

    Look for jhead, a CLI tool to manage exif, for instance, and jpegtran, another CLI tool to perform true lossless rotations.
     
  4. Stephan

    Stephan Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Apr 21, 2010
    Stavanger (Norway)
    Hi Mauve,

    from a technical point of view you're probably right. However, for me it would be more practical to have them saved the right way up. Mind, half my pictures are that way anyway (GF! + 14-45mm), only my pictures from the 20mm need sometimes rotation. Having them saved the right way up would make it much easier to share these pictures, either via the web, or sending them to friends.

    Anybody here with a good recommendation?

    Stephan

    PS: an afterthought: are the pictures of the 14-45mm lens rotated by Windows viewer/Photofunstudio/etc. due to the EXIF data, or are they saved by the camera the right way up? Anybody got a clue?
     
  5. squeegee

    squeegee Mu-43 Veteran Charter Member

    403
    Jan 26, 2010
    If I ignore the word "simple" in your request... :smile:

    Gimp is free and works well for me (gimp.org).

    When I'm taking photos a little tipsy... Gimp will let me do fine rotations like just 2 degrees etc. (on top of the simpler 90 degree rotations).

    When you save it, it defaults to retainning the exif but you have the options of erasing it. It also defaults to the same compression quality as before - or you can also reduce it if you like.

    Oh and did I mention it's free? :tongue:
     
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  6. mauve

    mauve Mu-43 Top Veteran

    892
    Mar 9, 2010
    Paris, France
    Sorry to repeat myself : jpegtran is exactly what you're looking after : true lossless jpeg image rotation tool. Only does that, but does it very well. When used with jhead, the exif orientation flag is set to "normal" and the image rotated without compression loss.
     
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  7. Stephan

    Stephan Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Apr 21, 2010
    Stavanger (Norway)
    Solution found - IrfanView Plugin

    Hi Mauve,

    you're my saviour!

    I searched for jpegtran, found it on the homepage of the independent JPEG group. The tool they programmed is very neat, based on command line interaction (as far as I found it). Works extremely well, and is fast (speaking about command lines...).

    BUT: they have a list on their site which programs use their algorithm as well. And there it was: IrfanView-PLUG IN! Went to the IrfanView site, downloaded the plugin-package, and it works like a treat! You can even use it in the thumbnail-screen of IrfanView, just mark all pictures to be rotated, and of you go. THAT is really something for the more visually minded person like me (my command line days are long gone since...).

    Thanks again!

    @squeegee: I tried GIMP 2 or 3 years ago. I really liked the interface and possibilities. However, I use a tablet instead of a mouse, and the implementation of the tablet into GIMP was a nightmare (more to do with proprietary drivers than programming abilities of the GIMP guys). Do you know if that has changed in the last years? I might give it another try then...

    Great forum. Greetings from Norway! Stephan :smile:
     
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  8. F1L1P

    F1L1P Mu-43 Veteran Charter Member

    388
    Jan 2, 2010
    Europe
    [​IMG]
    IrfanView PlugIns

    and you'll have option you need:
    [​IMG]
    :thumbup:
     
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  9. Stephan

    Stephan Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Apr 21, 2010
    Stavanger (Norway)
    Hi F1L1P,

    Thanks! Yeah, that's the plugin I found when I followed Mauve's link. I didn't have the IrfanView plugin-pack installed originally.

    Regards, Stephan
     
  10. squeegee

    squeegee Mu-43 Veteran Charter Member

    403
    Jan 26, 2010
    I don't think gimp has changed that much in the last 3 years, but, your tablet may have :). I don't have a talet but I was under the impression that the application should be ther same and it's just your tablet drivers being used instead of the "mouse drivers"...
     
  11. Stephan

    Stephan Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Apr 21, 2010
    Stavanger (Norway)
    Hi Squeegee,

    trouble is, as GIMP is open source software, the developers try to use open source drivers as well - or write some implementation themselves, if open source drivers are not provided by the tablet manufacturer. They have to avoid patented techniques while they are doing that, and there the trouble starts with tablets... years ago there was a huge thread about the tablet problem in the developers forum of GIMP, that's when I decided that the issue will not change in the foreseeable future and abandoned GIMP. I will try again if I have some spare time, right now I mostly use Photoshop Elements (which came with my scanner).

    By the way: they can't use the legacy Windows Mouse drivers (that the tablet supports as well), as they don't support advanced tablet features, like pressure sensitive movement, and reversing the pen for erasing...

    Thanks for the tip, though! Cheers, Stephan