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Lightrooom and m43 lens corrections

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by bleachingpixels, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. bleachingpixels

    bleachingpixels Mu-43 Rookie

    20
    May 2, 2013
    New Hampshire
    Hi all,

    I have a question and I apologize since I am 100% positive it's been asked a bazillion times but for the life of me I cannot find the answer.

    I'm currently using the OM-D E-M5 and the Panasonic 12-35 2.8, shooting RAW. In Lightroom it obviously does not find a lens correction. And there's none to download from Adobe. Now here's where my question come in:

    Does Olympus do some corrections before it hands you the RAW file? It's by no means a deal breaker since it can be done manually, but I'm fuzzy on the Olympus / Panasonic cross-overs and what they can and can't do for each other.

    Thanks for any help!
    -John
     
  2. synthetictone

    synthetictone Mu-43 Regular

    124
    May 22, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    Dean
    Greetings John,
    I was also interested in the same thing since I just got the GH3 and 12-35mm as well. I did some searching and it seems to me I read that lens correction was applied to the RAW file by the camera but this was in reference to the Panasonic . Its possible the Olympus is the same but I am not 100% sure on that since I haven't been able to find any tech documents that state this.
     
  3. MAubrey

    MAubrey Photographer

    Jul 9, 2012
    Bellingham, WA
    Mike Aubrey
    Hi John, the corrections are included in the metadata of the RAW file. If you were to look at the file with an unsupported RAW program like dcraw, right beside LR, you'd see the difference in what the metadata is telling Adobe to correct.
     
  4. quatchi

    quatchi Mu-43 Veteran

    326
    May 17, 2012
    Munich, Germany
    From what I understand, the correction information is embedded in the RAW and Lightroom applies those corrections automatically. There are only a few RAW converters out there which give you the "real" (meaning uncorrected) RAW. This at least applies to distortion. CA is not handled by the embedded information, though.
     
  5. bleachingpixels

    bleachingpixels Mu-43 Rookie

    20
    May 2, 2013
    New Hampshire
    Ahhh. ok

    So it's done my LR already and cannot be turned off. That's ok by me. The CA thing isn't a problem either considering how easy that is to correct too. Thanks for your help everyone!
     
  6. elavon

    elavon Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 1, 2012
    Tel Aviv Israel
    Ehud
    CA for Panasonic lenses on Panasonic bodies is corrected by LR. For Olympus i do not know since I do not have either lens nor body.
     
  7. Serhan

    Serhan Mu-43 Top Veteran

    533
    May 7, 2011
    NYC
    I upgraded my computer and also switched to win 8. Win8 preview shows the photos from the raw files also. When I look at my 12-35mm files, I see distortion & vignetting correction between the raw files and the jpegs, so original raw files in preview are not corrected. However if you open the raw files in lightroom, the correction is done automatically. It looks like the corrections in lightroom are embedded in the program, not like the other lens profiles (Canon, Nikon, Tamron, etc) where you can choose to apply or not.
     
  8. arad85

    arad85 Mu-43 Veteran

    477
    Aug 16, 2012
    I posted the following here: https://www.mu-43.com/f51/true-pana...-works-well-om-d-44644/index3.html#post454814

    Micro 4/3rds works differently to most "normal" lenses as the parameters needed for distortion and CA are part of the micro 4/3rds specification and contained in the lens firmware. It is the cameras job to apply them on conversion to JPEG (if you are doing in-camera JPEGs) or copy these parameters into the Exif data for raw files. Most raw converters then apply these automatically on import so we as users don't even know about them.

    The problem is whilst Panasonic lenses have distortion and CA parameters in the lenses, Olympus cameras don't copy the CA data into the Exif (or apply it to in-camera JPEGs). This is why you will find people with Olympus cameras complaining about Panasonic lenses with purple CA whereas people using the same lenses on Panasonic cameras have no such problems.
     
  9. bleachingpixels

    bleachingpixels Mu-43 Rookie

    20
    May 2, 2013
    New Hampshire
    This is a fantastically succinct and helpful explanation. Thank you
     
  10. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    If you want you can build your own camera/lens profiles (and share then please) using adobe tools.
     
  11. Luckysomer

    Luckysomer Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    Apr 24, 2013
    Alpine, UT
    Eric
    Looks like you need more than LR to build a profile. You need CS6. Adobe needs to address that.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

  13. Kpfeifle

    Kpfeifle Mu-43 Regular

    Interesting...does DXO get around that problem? It seems they test both olly and pan lenses on one camera and make a profile based on that.
     
  14. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    In principle the camera specific effects can be removed to leave only the lens effects. Geometric distortion, lateral chromatic aberration and vignetting do change depending on the sensor but if a large sensor is used a smaller sensor effects can be calculated from the large sensor data.

    There certainly are camera/lens interactions but they do not figure prominently in distortion, LCA and vignetting for the most part.
     
  15. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Maybe I misunderstood ... don't need LR, CSx or ACR or Adobe lens profile tools - if one knows what they are doing then they simply develop their own tools to construct camera/lens profiles. Adobe provides tools for free but DXO does not share their tools (that I can see).

    Just because metadata is in the raw file does not mean one has to use it! Since DXO supports directly opening the raw files they are free to use the metadata as they see fit.
     
  16. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Also, the parameters for distortion, LCA and vignetting are recorded into the metadata but the exact algorithm used to make the correction is not widely shared and is quite likely different in some ways from one raw converter to another raw converter. Everyone seems to think they have a better idea - don't they?
     
  17. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    Lightroom does not provide any automatic corrctions for Panasonic or Olympus camera bodies nor lenses.

    The following sentences are from thier web site
    "Camera lenses can exhibit different types of defects at certain focal lengths, f-stops, and focus distances. You can correct for these apparent lens distortions using the Lens Corrections panel of the Develop module."

    These are all adjustments you adjust to your liking, not Lightroom doing the adjustment.

    "The Profile options in the Lens Corrections panel of the Develop module correct distortions in common camera lenses. The profiles are based on Exif metadata that identifies the camera and lens that captured the photo, and the profiles compensate accordingly.
    Lens profiles are saved in the following locations:..."

    Lightroom has to have profiles to make lens corrections and there are no Panasonic or Olympus profiles. Check out the profiles that are included on your computer and you wil see no mention of either Panasonic or Olympus.

    Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4 * Correct lens distortion and adjust perspective

    If we want Adobe to include profiles for our lenses then the myth that Olympus and Panasonic profiles exist have to subside/disappear, and enough people can then convince Adobe it is worth their time to do so.
     
  18. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I whole hearedly disagree with your statment. Each lens can perform very differently on different camera bodies, even of the same model.

    That is why DxO Mark test many cameras and many lenses before declaring a profile or a lens score. From thier web site -

    "The most important points to remember about lens scores:
    All lens scores depend on both the lens AND the camera. With DxOMark, lenses are measured on many different cameras, so be sure to correctly select your lens AND your camera beforehand. Read more on why lens performance depends on the camera body."

    DxOMark - Lens scores
     
  19. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    So you are saying that a lens on two different E-P1 will show a significant difference in distortion, LCA and vignetting? That is easy enough to test but not what dxomark says.
     
  20. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    This is simply not true, and all one has to do to verify is to open any RAW image shot with a m4/3 lens in dcraw - ACR is performing substantial distortion correction automatically for all native m4/3 lenses, as well as vignetting compensation for some, and CA correction for a smaller subset. Automatic CA correction is possible merely by changing one ACR parameter.