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Leica SL (or XXL)

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by TNcasual, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Steve Huff says it's the best camera eva!

    It has two things going for it - a huge EVF and only one lens.

    All kidding aside, it really does look very good at capturing images. As for everything else that great cameras have/are, I think it falls a little short. But Leica is not looking to be like every other camera. Hopefully it will be successful for them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
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  2. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Reading through the review, it is evident that the SL is a very good camera (just look at the comparison to the A7R II), but... THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL ANYONE CAN JUSTIFY $12,500 FOR A CAMERA AND 24-90 F/2.8-4 LENS.

    That's just insane. To put that in to perspective, someone could buy an A7R II ($3200), an A7S II ($3000), a 16-35 Zeiss ($1350), a 24-70 Zeiss ($1200), a 70-200 G ($1500), and still have more than $2000 left over to buy you a round trip plane ticket to wherever the hell you want to go, so that you can use the gear you just bought.

    I'm sorry, but I can't justify TWELVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS for a camera and variable aperture zoom lens, even if they are the nicest ones ever made.
     
  3. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    Leica obviously believe that there are enough people in the world who can justify spending those sorts of sums, otherwise they wouldn't be making it at all.
     
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  4. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Seems funny that Steve would rave about this camera because part of what made him famous was being anti-DSLR at the right time. This new Leica is as big as a DSLR with none of the advantages of one.

    I guess they didn't make it for you (or me), then.

    I think I could make a similar rant to say why BMW sedans are a waste of money, but BMW is doing fine and so is my Nissan. :)
     
  5. PacNWMike

    PacNWMike Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Dec 5, 2014
    Salish Sea
    guess?
    It's a tank. Body alone weighs more than my whole kit including lunch.
     
  6. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Yeah, the issues I see with it is the mass and ergonomics. It just doesn't look comfortable.
     
  7. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    But it can't be comfortable or light weight when it's milled from a single piece of cold-forged unobtainium. That's what makes Leica a Leica!
     
  8. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    Like the Leicaflex:

    SL2-bon-2.

    Which is heavy metal.
     
  9. PacNWMike

    PacNWMike Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Dec 5, 2014
    Salish Sea
    guess?
    Let's see,

    EM5 + 9-18 585g + sandwich + extra windbreaker ~250g = 835g

    Leica SL body only = 847g
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  10. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I guess I like to think about this objectively. Would I buy this if I won the lottery? Probably not. I'd be more likely to buy the top end Nikon and series of f2.8 lenses if I wanted a big SLR sized camera, regardless of cost.

    I might buy a few Leica M models, though, even if I do feel like it is also way overpriced. And some Leica M primes. I can see the appeal there, even if I can't begin to justify the cost. Honestly, once I take cost out of the mix and assume unlimited budget, I might even shoot film! :)
     
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  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Yeah, a Mamiya 7 II or a Fuji GF670 start to look really, really appealing if you've got an unlimited budget...

    If I'm honest, the majority of my shooting lately has been with my medium format film camera, except for a business trip to China this past week...
     
  12. DaveEP

    DaveEP Mu-43 Top Veteran

    684
    Sep 20, 2014
    York, UK
    It's interesting how much hype surrounds Leica cameras. I've owned / used several Leica cameras starting with an M3 back in the 70s up the M8 within just a few weeks of it's release. OMG was that camera a mess!

    When I look back and compare the photos I took in the film days, nothing about the Leica shots shout 'best camera' or 'best shots'. Sure, some shots were nicely sharp, but then so were some shots from my Pentax and Olympus SLRs too.

    I have been browsing my Lightroom catalog over the last few days, going through every shot ruthlessly culling duplicates and ones I'll never print or bring out in public (I'm down to +/- 50K shots now!). while doing so I came across the thousands of M8 shots and TBH they are some of my least favourite shots in the library, despite having a clutch of Summilux & Summicron primes to shoot through. Sure, there's a standout shot here and there, but by no means as many (even percentage wise) as I got from the Canon/Nikon DSLRs or indeed more recently with the Panasonic/Olympus Micro-Four-Thirds system.

    I realise I'm swimming against the tide of general camera enthusiast opinion but I think the 'pictures' (taken as a whole, printed or on screen) I take with M43 cameras are at least on par and in many cases more pleasing than with any I've ever taken with any camera system. I won't be re-investing in any over priced Leica cameras and will we happy to 'make-do' with Panasonic / Leica lenses for M43 :) For those who like to pixel peep there may well be a better camera for you, but when you step back and look at the bigger picture, including cost, size, weight etc I have a hard time thinking of any other system right now.
     
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  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    It seems like it might be a bit unfair to judge photos you took years ago against the ones you take now. Hopefully you've learned a thing or two in the intervening years about improving your photography, completely independently of the camera you're using, no?

    Not to defend Leicas or disagree with your overall point. Though I do say, the new Leica Q is the only Leica I've ever lusted after. That price tag, though...
     
  14. DaveEP

    DaveEP Mu-43 Top Veteran

    684
    Sep 20, 2014
    York, UK
    Of course, but given the ranges of shots from other cameras come from before, during and after my Leica phases I think I'll let my point stand. At no time did my Leica shots ever really outshine my non Leica shots in the same week, month or year.
     
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  15. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Totally fair, then!
     
  16. gr6825

    gr6825 Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 10, 2012
    Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate Hate :)
     
  17. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    At $12.5k it's an easy target for hate. I'm certainly in the "what's all the fuss about" when it comes to Leica, but once a camera's price is past about $2k then it's definitely a case of diminishing returns. I'd never buy a camera at this price level but I can see that for those with the cash it's a desirable piece of kit, if only for the build quality and exclusivity. Will it take technically better pictures than a D800 etc? - I doubt it.
     
  18. gr6825

    gr6825 Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 10, 2012
    I agree - very easy target for hate, jealousy, and reverse snobbery. I have no skin in the Leica fight. However, I have seen some very positive comments from firsthand users. Lots of praise for the EVF. I would think that would get the Leica some feeling of kinship around here or at least street cred...
     
  19. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    While really expensive, Leica seems to be innovating quite a bit. They have an APS-C ILC line, fixed 4/3rds, APS-C and FF bodies, they have two FF camera lines with the M and SL and lastly they have their flagship S line. Putting price aside, they have all their bases covered from the low end to very high end!
     
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  20. usayit

    usayit Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    There is a missed point in regards to pricing...

    Leica isn't marketing these cameras to the US anymore. They are pricing and marketing them towards China. China is the new wealth. Welcome to the new global economy where the US isn't the primary consumer manufacturers aim for.

    I can't find the sources but it showed that more than half of Leica's sales is occupied by the Chinese (and outlying areas such as Hong Kong) market. Prior to Leica's sales channels into mainland China, several Leica dealers reported difficulties keeping stock... as soon as they filled the shelves, someone would buy up the stock destined for China markets. There were also rumors of listing Leica stock on the Hong Kong stock exchange.

    So while it may be expensive to us.. it is certainly attainable to others in certain parts of the globe.... ticket price like any other good or service has little to do with cost of delivering but how much market is willing to pay for it.

    For those outside the US looking in of years past, could say the same about the cost of the goods and services we have been buying for years.