Leica M 60 sets a new standard

[John M Flores]

I'm going to leave this thread and go and take pictures. I recommend that everyone else do the same. We'll all be happier for it.

 

[DanS]

Or that I insinuated that if you used automatic camera functions you were lacking in skills. How did anyone read that into my question.

Well, you did insult a plethora of people. Your postings contain what is commonly referred to as an indirect insult.

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Thus, this is how your comments read.

The only reason a professional photographer needs an LCD is to verify images are being recorded.

You're not a professional if you use an LCD for anything other than validating the camera is working.

a skilled shooter should already know what the image will look like if they paid attention to light and movement, choosing settings according.

You're not skilled if you use image preview.

If digital can now compete with film on every aspect why are you so afraid to trust it to your skills as a photographer?

Your not skilled if you rely on any of the technology i disprove of.

When Lomography produces the camera I'm suggesting within 10 years for under $200.00 so students can learn "basic photography" on a manual camera and never need to gag on toxic fixer. I may be applauded as a great visionary. "Dogma is delusion in a tuxedo"

I'm a forward thinking visionary and you are all to dumb, stuborn, or short sited to see it.

This is the kicker:
If a person uses almost any mirrorless camera they are not a professional or skilled by your logic, because the viewfinder is an lcd. If you haven't noticed your posting on a forum dedicated to mirrorless cameras, so your opinions aren't going to be well received.

 

[Replytoken]

Every digital camera I've tried so far is difficult to work in full manual mode

I'm going to ignore all of the "drama" of the past few posts and ask if you could elaborate on this point. Is the difficulty physical locations of the buttons? Are you just not comfortable with menu driven controls? Would you not have used a Nikon F4 in the days of film because of its automation? I grew up with film, owned two Leica M models for a period of time, and I just find the ergonomics of today's cameras to be great. With my E-M1 or my D300, I can easily change settings in manual mode with just the flick of a finger. The grips are designed so that I can carry a camera in my hand for hours with very little discomfort. I am curious to know what you are finding difficult.

--Ken

 

[TonyG]

I hope that Micro Four Third manufactures take note of this. A full manual camera that shoots only Raw and does not have an LCD
Purist photography revival, to choose Aperture, shutter speed, and ISO with a range finder focus system. It would require adapting current lenses with aperture dial but that should not be too cost prohibitive. I would be more than happy to pay $2,000.00 for an Olympus body built upon this concept. $18,000.00 for the Leica and they only plan to sell 600 of so.
I asked Nikon for this design ten years ago and they said no. (a full frame digital FM with no LCD or automatic functions) So I moved away from Nikon and went Olympus 4/3rd.
Battery life would be amazing and a plug in LCD could be an accessory. A hot shoe and mechanical self time would make my inner luddite so happy

I think you are being unrealistic. Most mainstream manufacturers aren't interested in small volume cameras. They just aren't set up for that type of product.

 

[Replytoken]

Back to basics means learning simple camera controls to create a photo image. If you take a course in photography today why do you even need to learn about film? History lesson only if you don't plan to use it. But here you are with a cheap old Pentax from a local pawn shop loading a roll of tri-x into a developing spool at the local city collage. Its like learning to shoe horses in an auto mechanics course. Digital has replaced film, it is a different medium, just like CD's replaced the twelve inch album.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on this point. Back to basics also means learning the fundamentals of capturing light, and the basics are pretty much the same for film or digital. This can be learned using either film or digital, but as digital lends itself to post-processing more easily for those just starting out, learning the basics, and what happens when you do not understood them, is a bit better understood with film because the errors cannot be as easily corrected. Basics also includes camera control as you mention, but without some basics around capturing light, a person is really more of a snap shooter than a photographer, IMHO. I will grant you that there are many talented snap shooters out there, but I like to believe that those who like to practice or learn photography have some interest in the fundamentals of light.

--Ken

 

[thegimprider]

Basic digital photography! Is that simple enough for a statement and is it politically correct on this site?
Step 1 Digital camera-student-meter-set aperture-set shutter-frame-focus-shoot
Step 2 Download image-historgram judging-image print-critique.
Wow! that just took under 30 minutes of time and did not require leaving the class room.
How many people did that offend?

 

[thegimprider]

Build my own digital camera? Yes great idea but extreme expense today for digital backs.
A Mamiya RB67 with digital back would meet my needs and come in at about the same price as the Leica. Ever carry one of these around for a day of casual shooting?
My ideal camera:
1.7 20mm leaf shutter lens with aperture and focus rings 1/500 to bulb
20mp MFT sensor RAW only
Range finder body that fits in large shirt pocket
ISO, shutter, built in light meter, hot shoe,battery check button,memory button
That would be a fixed lens like advanced point and shoot, not mirrorless.

 

[AerialCameras]

I do want to thank you for showing up to let us know film and vinyl have been replaced. That's some real game changing information we could have used sooner.

As for people learning the foundations of photography the way you or I did on film and in a darkroom, I really don't give a rats rectum what the new generations are learning or how they learn it. As long as people are enthused, happy and can keep striving, it's not my place or yours to discount their motivation or artistic goals. My instructors thought I had it easy with a ttl matched needle and incredibly fast 400asa film. Yes most of what's being produced is crap, but that's always been the case. Its just in the film days you wouldn't go to the effort or expense to print and share the crap. But you have to recognize there are loads of folks with little shutter time and kit lenses making exceptional images and their lack of zone system or hyper focal knowledge shouldn't detract from their results.

I'm not sure anyone here is offended by your opinions, rather more like confused as to why you insist everyone acquiesce to your rigid idea of what pure photography is.
Whatever works for you is great. There's no need to justify your methods, tools or what little niceties you value by diminishing how other people climb the same mountain.

 

[thegimprider]

confused as to why you insist everyone acquiesce to your rigid idea of what pure photography is.

Please show me where I made this grave error? This is what most of the responders are screaming about. Only a few have bothered to respond to my simple questions without reading them as demands or accusations.
The only thing I "insist" upon is that this camera is simple to design with todays existing off the shelf components.
Yes prototypes are more expensive to build but I'm not asking for a reinvented wheel. When does ask become insist?
AND how in the world did this simple question turn into a flame thread?

 

[JensM]

You may also be in a padded cell, time will show. Cheers.

 

[fredlong]

Back in 2007 Epson introduced the Cosina manufactured RD1. It was a manual rangefinder with a Leica M mount. It ticks all your boxes except for the LCD panel on the back. Fortunately the panel can be reversed. It wasn't a huge hit in the market and the final version was discontinued in 2014. It can be found on the used market for under $1000 saving you $17000 over the Leica.

Good luck finding satisfaction in your photographic endeavors.

Fred

 

[DanS]

Please show me where I made this grave error? This is what most of the responders are screaming about.

Your tone and demeanor is what is getting you in trouble, see my post above. You are speaking absolutely, you need to start using phrases like "in my opinion", "I think", or "I believe", and you will catch a lot less flack.

 

[TheMenWhoDrawSheeps]

Build my own digital camera? Yes great idea but extreme expense today for digital backs.
A Mamiya RB67 with digital back would meet my needs and come in at about the same price as the Leica. Ever carry one of these around for a day of casual shooting?
My ideal camera:
1.7 20mm leaf shutter lens with aperture and focus rings 1/500 to bulb
20mp MFT sensor RAW only
Range finder body that fits in large shirt pocket
ISO, shutter, built in light meter, hot shoe,battery check button,memory button
That would be a fixed lens like advanced point and shoot, not mirrorless.

Nope, don't think it's that expensive/hard.
I red somewhere about a guy complaining Olympus doesn't want to support the varranty because he put em5ii insides in the EM1 body. Also had the pleasure to see some working dslr skeletons still working.
So it's all about finding skilled enthusiast for a transplant.

1) buy 1 or better more used EM10, or old Panasonic mfts i think most Pana have ISO dials which makes it easier to transfer, since they have already full "Manual" usability with fixed dial steps also it already has rangefinder format - no IBIS but well, youre not into that stuff anyway. Let's say you'll end up spending a grand.
2) Set up all your settings, since you won't access the menu ever.
3) let the guy dismember the camera/s until he finds which parts Sensor and Professor need to work. I really dont know if the cameras need any Display buttons signal confirmation - if its easy, he`ll need just to chop the parts off, lock it in M mode, and preserve the SHutter/ISO/F-stop dials. Don't think, it will be worth more than 1/2 grand
4) send body to technitian/architecture/Design Student/Studio which do 3D to get simple body for 3d print in plastic/concrete or milling machine in wood/metal - another 1/2 grand

All in all I don't think it would take more than 3 grand to make working prototype. Not that Leica feel but your own "limited" Edition.


Sent from my D5503 using Mu-43 app

 

[Rambling Sam]

Oh, I just can't let this pass without a dishing up a large dollop of sarcasm ...

Maybe those who are advocating that cameras don't have an LCD screen (which also delivers a raft of other useful information) should bin all of their post WW2 cameras and experience the delights of 'real' photography by buying something like this Logaphot* extinction light meter, a very basic Large format pinhole camera which employs wet plates, or if this is just a bit too basic, it's 21st century variant, direct positive (DP) paper and a tripod?
* Anssi's Collection/Light meters/Logaphot Black&Red/Logaphot Black&Red-001

 

[AerialCameras]

Oh, I just can't let this pass without a dishing up a large dollop of sarcasm ...

You're my kind of people

 

[retiredfromlife]

Back in 2007 Epson introduced the Cosina manufactured RD1. It was a manual rangefinder with a Leica M mount. It ticks all your boxes except for the LCD panel on the back. Fortunately the panel can be reversed. It wasn't a huge hit in the market and the final version was discontinued in 2014. It can be found on the used market for under $1000 saving you $17000 over the Leica.

Fred

If this is the one you mean, just reviewed, they look just great.
I used to collect old film cameras, but these are a bit expensive for me.

Regards

 

[thegimprider]

How many trolls does it take to screw in a light bulb?
What! Doesn't my kamera have an auto function for that?
The VA gives me money for being hit in the head too many times, what is your excuse?
AND I have been in a padded cell plus escaped from 2 state mental hospitals, is that on your resume?

Thank you for the education and I truly thank those with critiques to my question. Building my own might be easiest approach. A Samsung NV7 for body can be had cheap, just cover LCD and few buttons, lens from old folding film camera, newer sensor to match lens but I'd need to use my viewfinder and that is extra battery draw. Range finder match to a 20mm lens is the only complex engineer step. The rest is simple machine shop and fine soldering.

For any who wish to be offended you can join me on Dysfunctional Veterans FB page and share comments about alligators, gorillas, Gender cross bathrooms, and high capacity magazines. At dysfunctional veterans we believe the best defense is a good offense.

 

[thegimprider]

The Epson RD1 would work with new guts. If I could find a dead one under $200.00 with a clean body I'd risk it. A full frame sensor would be the only big expense. I can always find M mount lenses in a prime without breaking the bank.

Wow somebody else wants a modern digital camera for "purest" photography. He also mentions the Nikon FM
Perhaps an old FM could be sealed up with a full frame digital CCD inside. A bit more bulk than I'm used to carrying now days but old Nikkor primes are cheap and easy to find. That is the camera almost every combat photographer carried for back up, bullet proof workhorse.

 

[svenkarma]

How many trolls does it take to screw in a light bulb?
What! Doesn't my kamera have an auto function for that?
The VA gives me money for being hit in the head too many times, what is your excuse?
AND I have been in a padded cell plus escaped from 2 state mental hospitals, is that on your resume?

Thank you for the education and I truly thank those with critiques to my question. Building my own might be easiest approach. A Samsung NV7 for body can be had cheap, just cover LCD and few buttons, lens from old folding film camera, newer sensor to match lens but I'd need to use my viewfinder and that is extra battery draw. Range finder match to a 20mm lens is the only complex engineer step. The rest is simple machine shop and fine soldering.

For any who wish to be offended you can join me on Dysfunctional Veterans FB page and share comments about alligators, gorillas, Gender cross bathrooms, and high capacity magazines. At dysfunctional veterans we believe the best defense is a good offense.

What the heck are you babbling about?

 

[barry]

Closing this pending moderator discussion.