Leave your IS on

JDS

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
576
Location
San Francisco, CA
Real Name
David Schultz
Hasn't this thread about devolved enough that we should just blame Hitler and close the thread?
Godwin's Law, the first time I've ever seen it here! Bravo!

Wikipedia: Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"
 

ianpiper

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
42
Location
United Kingdom
Real Name
Ian Piper
What's your tripod like? That's an important variable. That said I've always left IBIS on for Olympus because half the time I'm shooting in wind and what not.
I've never understood the argument about turning off IS, and after doing my own tests I never disable it - I simply see no evidence that having IS on when it's on a tripod makes the resulting image worse. How can a camera know whether it's on a tripod or just being held very steadily in your hands?
 

Bidkev

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4,130
Location
Brisbane Australia from Blackpool UK 23yrs ago
I've never understood the argument about turning off IS, and after doing my own tests I never disable it - I simply see no evidence that having IS on when it's on a tripod makes the resulting image worse. How can a camera know whether it's on a tripod or just being held very steadily in your hands?
Hitler tells it :)
 

Mike Wingate

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 21, 2017
Messages
2,299
Location
Altrincham
Real Name
Mike Wingate
Right, I shall leave it off. If my photos suffer, I know whom to blame. I have been brought up to believe the handbooks and manuals in the past, but this is the age of the internet where everything is true.
 

alex g

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,644
Location
New York / Bath
This topic will run and run I think — every so often I read a thread like this and after a while I start doubting the conclusion I came to the last time, so I do a quick test of my bodies just in case the IS behaviour may have been quietly changed as part of a firmware update. I just tested the E-M1.1, E-M1.2, E-M5 II and the GH5s, the latter paired with both Olympus and Panasonic OIS-equipped lenses, since it has no IBIS.

The method is to mount the body on a tripod with a longish lens attached. Observe the live view and if necessary magnify the view so that, with IS turned off, there is some visible, low-level jiggle. Now turn IS on. While observing the live view, carefully place a finger on the top of the camera and gradually induce increasing amounts of camera shake.

In all the above cases, the results are the same: there is visible jiggle in the live view to begin with, increasing as I shake the camera more, until at a certain level of input the live view stabilises and the jiggle disappears.

The conclusion is that the IS on all of the tested bodies is automatically disabled when the motion of the camera has been near zero for a certain period of time. The exact parameters unsurprisingly appear to differ between models, but they all exhibit broadly the same behaviour. Bottom line is that it makes no difference whether IS is turned on or off when the camera is mounted on a reasonably stable support — it will always be automatically disabled. Conceivably, if the camera is on a very flimsy tripod on a windy day, there might be enough shake to prevent it dropping below the cutoff threshold, but I think that would have to be really flimsy.

If you're shooting stills on a tripod and you want IS, shake the camera a bit until the IS turns on, after which you have about a second in which to take the shot before it turns off again! :)

If you're shooting video with a long lens, you're screwed, unfortunately, which is something I regularly send whinging emails to Olympus about.

I think the reason that IBIS is intentionally disabled is to prevent drifting of the image centre. Accelerometers, like all electronic components, generate a certain amount of self-noise, which will be most apparent when the legit output signal is smallest, i.e. when the camera is stationary or near-stationary (actually, it'll be lowest when the camera is in free-fall, but we won't go there...). A spurious blip of noise will be enough to fool the algorithm into thinking that the camera is in motion, and without a corresponding negative blip to indicate that it's stopped again, the image centre will slowly drift until it the IS reaches one of its physical limits of movement.

I believe that the GH5 had a special "static" IS mode added to it at some point, which I'd be interested to hear more about from someone who has one — does it in fact stay active when the camera is on a tripod, perhaps with a high-pass filter across the accelerometers to prevent drift?
 
Last edited:

Joris

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
76
Location
Picardie, France
What is missing are some sample shots. Here are 4 shots, all on a GX 80 + Manfrotto 190B. Taken from 4m, focused on the thermometer. Two shots with PL 42.5mm at at f/5.6 and two with the PL 35-100mm f4.0-5.6 at 42.5mm also at f/5.6. All ISO 100, three at 1/6s, one at 1/5s
One can distinguish the lenses, but can anyone tell me with certainty which shots were taken with dual IS on and which with dual IS off ?
All JPEGs from the maiden RAW files :
P1080017.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
P1080026.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
P1080029.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
P1080014.jpg
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 
Last edited:

archaeopteryx

Gambian sidling bush
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,076
I think, after the forum imposes its 1600 pixel size limit (which includes an unsharp mask and some other processing), there aren't enough thermometer pixels left to really tell. Which is a fine, if unsurprising, result. Depending on the publication pathway of interest, compositing the originals to less than 1600 pixels and uploading as .png might be more informative.

Here's an easier comparison between 100% crops from the four images uploaded. Looking at this at 200%, I suspect the main image quality limitation is jpeg artifacts from the forum downsize. It would also depend on the upload method, though.
Joris tripod dual IS.png
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 
Last edited:

Joris

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
76
Location
Picardie, France
Thank you archeopteryx, as you say, all look horrendous up close, finally. Sadly LR 6.14 doesn't allow for png export, and MU-43 doesn't accept tif, dng or psd. I do not know how to take it from here.
 

Angus Gibbins

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
609
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Angus
Traditionally the best practice has been able to disable. However, (my understanding is) leaving your S-IS on Auto isn't leaving your IS on, it's telling your camera to engage the IS if it's needed.

Don't forget as well, when the rule about turning off IS first circulated, IBIS was extremely rare if, even non-existent. We've come a long way since then (Olympus has especially).

If you're shooting a DSLR with stabilisation in the lens, I'd still turn it off, mirrorless cameras, case by case basis with more testing needed.
 

Wairoakid

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
34
From the Em1x manual- specifically says to turn off IBIS when on tripod for photo mode ( as opposed to movie mode)



Image stabilization reduces blur caused by the camera moving while the shutter is
open.
The camera is equipped with 5-axis image stabilization that in addition to reducing
blur caused by motion on the pitch and yaw axes, can be used with all lenses to
reduce blur caused by motion on the horizontal, vertical, and roll axes. Not only
can it be used at night, in darkened interiors, with telephoto lenses, and in other
situations in which blur due to camera motion is likely to occur, it can also be used
to reduce blur during macro photography. You will need to provide the lens focal
length when using image stabilization with lenses that are not part of the Four
Thirds or Micro Four Thirds family.
Reducing Camera Blur (K Image Stabilizer)
Reduce blur caused by the camera shake that commonly occurs, for example, when
the subject is poorly lit or in photos taken at high zoom ratios.
• This setting can be accessed via:
- The LV super control panel (P. 177)
- The menus (P. 177)
- Live controls (P. 177)
S-IS Off Image stabilization disabled. Select this option when using a tripod.
S-IS AUTO (auto)
Image stabilization applies to motion on all axes. If panning
motion is detected, the camera will automatically suspend image
stabilization on that axis.
S-IS1 (multi-directional) Image stabilization applies to motion on all axes.
S-IS2 (vertical) Image stabilization applies to vertical motion. Use when panning
the camera horizontally.
S-IS3 (horizontal) Image stabilization applies to horizontal motion. Use when panning
the camera vertically.
• Image stabilization may be unable to compensate for excessive camera motion or very slow
shutter speeds. Use a tripod in these cases.
• You may notice noise or vibration while image stabilization is in effect.
• The setting selected with the lens image stabilization switch, if any, takes priority over that
selected with the camera.
• [S-IS AUTO] functions as [S-IS1] when [On] is selected for [Lens I.S. Priority].
%
• You can choose whether image stabilization will be performed while the shutter button is
pressed halfway. g [Half Way Rls With IS] (P. 178)
• You can prioritize lens image stabilization. g [Lens I.S. Priority] (P. 512)
 
Last edited:

Wairoakid

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
34
Again for the Em-1x in Highres mode

[S-IS Off] is automatically selected for [K Image Stabilizer] when [Tripod] is chosen for
[Shooting Method], [S-IS AUTO] when [Handheld] is selected.
 

Bushboy

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2018
Messages
811
Location
Aotearoa
Real Name
Charlie
I have function button 1 and 2, set up as mysets.
Both of them tripod focusing modes, with IS turned off. Easy really.
But I will admit, I can’t tell the difference if I tripod mount the camera and leave IS on... looks fine to me. Is it all just a storm in a teacup?
 

archaeopteryx

Gambian sidling bush
Joined
Feb 25, 2017
Messages
1,076
Is it all just a storm in a teacup?
At least for OIS I think it rather is. I've been testing OIS lenses since fairly early in both the OIS and DSLR eras and, with regards to image quality, there's usually no downside and sometimes minor pixel peeping advantage to leaving OIS enabled on tripods. Advantages are usually associated with long lenses, mechanical shutters, and (D)SLR situations where mirror lockup is impractical. In every case I can recall where improvement occurred the manual for the camera body in question either said nothing or indicated to disable OIS on tripod. Don't pay much attention to this particular bit of manuals a result.

To date, the only exception was been a very early OIS lens which predated Canon's addition of tripod support. Optically it actually worked kind of OK anyways but the control loop went bonkers and it made something of a racket.

Haven't yet had an IBIS body so can't comment on that or dual IS.
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
2,699
Location
New England
From the Em1x manual- specifically says to turn off IBIS when on tripod for photo mode
Olympus has always been very conservative with their customers typically deferring to the lowest common denominator (read: don't give the idiots something to complain about). For example, there used to be some screw on lenses they made before their interchangeable lens digitals and they were very specific about which cameras you can use them on and others they would claim were not compatible. What they really meant was that on certain cameras with wider angle lenses, the add on lens would show vignetting. Rather than simply noting that in the documentation and letting the user decide if and how to use it, they would just claim they were not compatible so they wouldn't have a bunch of customers complaining about the lens ruining their shots because of dark corners.

Likewise, I think with IS they have always taken the position that if you are on a tripod then there is no harm (and safer for their customer service) in stating to leave IS off when on a tripod. The flip side is some ignorant person buying a $35 aluminum tripod that extends to 7 feet tall at Walmart, taking it on their once in a lifetime vacation, shooting a lot of shots on the edges of cliffs or anywhere in Iceland where there is lots of wind, then complaining to Oly that when they got back home all their tripod shots were blurry and it must have been the IS that Oly didn't tell them they had to turn off. :doh:
 

alex g

Mu-43 All-Pro
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,644
Location
New York / Bath
As previously described, both Panasonic and Olympus bodies automatically disable all stabilisation when the amount of motion detected drops below a certain level. Even if you have IS switched on, it will turn itself off after the camera has been relatively static for about a second or so.

The only way to have IS active while the camera is on a tripod is to use an adapted, non-system, stabilised lens, such as an EF lens. This can be advantageous when shooting manual focus video with a long lens, because the OIS corrects the high-frequency bounce caused by touching the focus ring. Although the image will typically drift around a bit, the movement is relatively slow and is easy to correct in post, whereas the motion blur caused by unstabilised high-frequency lens bounce while shooting at around 1/50th second isn't. But in all other use cases, when using system lenses on a tripod, it makes no difference whether IS is turned on or off. It will always turn itself off.
 

Angus Gibbins

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
609
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Angus
Again for the Em-1x in Highres mode

[S-IS Off] is automatically selected for [K Image Stabilizer] when [Tripod] is chosen for
[Shooting Method], [S-IS AUTO] when [Handheld] is selected.
That makes sense though, high res mode works by moving the sensor the same way that IBIS works, if you left IBIS on, you wouldn't be able move the senor around as much.
 

Angus Gibbins

Mu-43 Top Veteran
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
609
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Angus
As previously described, both Panasonic and Olympus bodies automatically disable all stabilisation when the amount of motion detected drops below a certain level. Even if you have IS switched on, it will turn itself off after the camera has been relatively static for about a second or so.
I haven't tested this but I wonder if this makes a difference between S-IS Auto and S-IS 1 on Olympus bodies.

Olympus has always been very conservative with their customers typically deferring to the lowest common denominator
Olympus documentation also has an element of lost in translation-ess when it comes to their manuals being in Japanese and English. A lot of it I use as a guide only.
 
Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom