Latest (Wedding) Gear Conundrum

[Lupin 3rd]

Give it some good light and the E-M5 + 45/1.8 will take some amazing photos.

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Untitled by massimovsr, on Flickr

 

[ooheadsoo]

Thanks for the inspiration. In my personal photography these days, the 45 is certainly a staple. It's my primary lens for portraits of my baby. However, given the circumstances, I think I can get reasonably close results with the 24-120/4. I'm also fairly certain the 24-120 can also focus closer than the 45/1.8, iirc.



As the wedding draws closer, I plan on doing some light studying of basic wedding shots so I can start to previsualize the angles. This was a good reminder to look for reflections.

 

[davidzvi]

I would use S with auto ISO, not A. In general it's better to control stopping motion for events IMHO.

 

[ac12]

I would use S with auto ISO, not A. In general it's better to control stopping motion for events IMHO.

That would force you to be aware of the shutter speed and not end up shoot so slow that the couple blurs out.
Been there, done that.

CAUTION. If you use auto ISO with the e-shutter.

You need to test and be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you know how the auto ISO will work on YOUR camera.
It screwed up on me on the EM1-mk1.

With the e-shutter and P mode, the shutter speed will drop all the way down to 1/13 second, before the auto ISO kicks in and starts to raise the ISO level.​

1 - That is a stupid low shutter speed. The IBIS might compensate for YOUR motion, but not any subject motion.​

2 - The shutter speed will stay down at that 1/13 sec floor, while the ISO rises.​

This effectively makes auto ISO useless with the e-shutter in P mode in dim light.​

Note: The same bug is in the EM10-mk2. And that bug may be in the EM5.
I have not tested in A mode, but it could do the same thing and let the shutter speed drop to a stupid low speed.
I sent a message to Olympus USA tech about this, but have not heard back from them.

With the mechanical shutter the floor shutter speed is 1/(FL x 2), which is reasonable.

Again, you NEED to test your camera, so that you are not caught unaware by the auto ISO behavior.

 

[ooheadsoo]

I always thought A mode was more foolproof, especially with a f/4 lens, since the risk of overexposure by transitioning outside and forgetting to stop down is fairly small at f/4. If I set minimum shutter speed to 1/80, auto-iso will prevent the shutter from dragging too much. Due to this, I've never really played with S mode. By my thinking, there seems to be more negative scenarios if I get lost in the moment and forget to adjust from bright to dark scenes in S mode. When transitioning indoors, if I have the shutter speed set too high and forget to adjust, my auto-iso will bottom out and underexpose. On the other hand, if the opposite scenario happens and the shutter speed is too slow when I transition outdoors, I might inadvetently shoot an entire series of photos at f/22 and still end up possibly overexposing.

So my thoughts have always been that (at least with an f/4 lens,) A mode is safer in fast fluctuating situations. Am I mistaken in how A/S modes work?

 

[ac12]

I always thought A mode was more foolproof, especially with a f/4 lens, since the risk of overexposure by transitioning outside and forgetting to stop down is fairly small at f/4. If I set minimum shutter speed to 1/80, auto-iso will prevent the shutter from dragging too much. Due to this, I've never really played with S mode. By my thinking, there seems to be more negative scenarios if I get lost in the moment and forget to adjust from bright to dark scenes in S mode. When transitioning indoors, if I have the shutter speed set too high and forget to adjust, my auto-iso will bottom out and underexpose. On the other hand, if the opposite scenario happens and the shutter speed is too slow when I transition outdoors, I might inadvetently shoot an entire series of photos at f/22 and still end up possibly overexposing.

So my thoughts have always been that (at least with an f/4 lens,) A mode is safer in fast fluctuating situations. Am I mistaken in how A/S modes work?

Ha, been there, done that.
Dim inside to bright outside, and I forgot to lower the ISO.
Luckily with the 1600 max ISO, the camera could deal with the light level outside.

One idea is to carry a check card, and when you go in/out use the card to run a checklist of what you have to reconfigure.

In practice this will not work during the recessional, as they will be walking from dim inside to bright outside. And you have to reconfigure on the fly.​

This will be potentially confusing, as you are using two different brands, with different controls, and it is very easy to get mixed up. This is why I do not like to use both my Nikon and Olympus at the same time. Even worse when I have to help the students with their Canons.​

This is when option 2 comes in: to configure one camera for outside, the other for inside.

 

[ooheadsoo]

That would force you to be aware of the shutter speed and not end up shoot so slow that the couple blurs out.
Been there, done that.

CAUTION. If you use auto ISO with the e-shutter.

You need to test and be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you know how the auto ISO will work on YOUR camera.
It screwed up on me on the EM1-mk1.

With the e-shutter and P mode, the shutter speed will drop all the way down to 1/13 second, before the auto ISO kicks in and starts to raise the ISO level.​

1 - That is a stupid low shutter speed. The IBIS might compensate for YOUR motion, but not any subject motion.​

2 - The shutter speed will stay down at that 1/13 sec floor, while the ISO rises.​

This effectively makes auto ISO useless with the e-shutter in P mode in dim light.​

Note: The same bug is in the EM10-mk2. And that bug may be in the EM5.
I have not tested in A mode, but it could do the same thing and let the shutter speed drop to a stupid low speed.
I sent a message to Olympus USA tech about this, but have not heard back from them.

With the mechanical shutter the floor shutter speed is 1/(FL x 2), which is reasonable.

Again, you NEED to test your camera, so that you are not caught unaware by the auto ISO behavior.

Nikon auto iso let you either specify the minimum shutter speed or use a multiple of the 1/fl rule. I have my custom modes set up to take advantage of the 1/fl flexibility during street/vacation travel, but for this wedding, I'm thinking I'll probably peg it at 1/80.

Panasonic has some funky auto iso auto minimum shutter speed modes like i-ISO, which is not smart enough in my experience, and I believe the normal auto minimum shutter speed function is broken, so I would rely on setting a fixed value manually. Luckily, this is super easy with the g9.

Ditto with olympus, I don't trust the auto min shutter speed formula to be sufficient, so I would rely on specifying a value, such as 1/80.

 

[davidzvi]

That would force you to be aware of the shutter speed and not end up shoot so slow that the couple blurs out.
Been there, done that.

CAUTION. If you use auto ISO with the e-shutter.
............
Again, you NEED to test your camera, so that you are not caught unaware by the auto ISO behavior.

When you want to control motion blur you control shutter speed, not aperture. If you shoot in aperture, the shutter can vary; that's when you can have issues. Note, I used manual mode and on camera flash most of the time as I stated. But if I had to pick between Aperture and Shutter for an event it would be shutter.

E-Shutter on a D750?

I always thought A mode was more foolproof, especially with a f/4 lens, since the risk of overexposure by transitioning outside and forgetting to stop down is fairly small at f/4. If I set minimum shutter speed to 1/80, auto-iso will prevent the shutter from dragging too much. Due to this, I've never really played with S mode. By my thinking, there seems to be more negative scenarios if I get lost in the moment and forget to adjust from bright to dark scenes in S mode. When transitioning indoors, if I have the shutter speed set too high and forget to adjust, my auto-iso will bottom out and underexpose. On the other hand, if the opposite scenario happens and the shutter speed is too slow when I transition outdoors, I might inadvetently shoot an entire series of photos at f/22 and still end up possibly overexposing.

So my thoughts have always been that (at least with an f/4 lens,) A mode is safer in fast fluctuating situations. Am I mistaken in how A/S modes work?

Which is why I commented that in those transition situations I switch to P.

There are no "right" or "must" rules, I can only tell you what I've done in the past.

 

[ooheadsoo]

I can see the advantage of S mode when you have relatively stable lighting and want to quickly manipulate the shutter speed. If I were in A mode, I would have to dig into the auto-iso menu, which is not quick on Nikon. I can see myself doing this, say during the reception. I see the ceremony as riskier for me making a mistake since brightness can vary drastically depending if I'm shooting up or down the aisle.

I appreciate all of the tips, whether I end up using them or not. I have to be realistic about how many habits I can realistically change under pressure. However, thinking about their implementation forces me to actively engage in previsualizing angles and shooting scenarios, which is especially important because I haven't shot events in a while.

 

[ac12]

KISS

As you said, don't get too complicated, or that is a mistake waiting to happen.

 

[saladin]

I shot a friends wedding (candid style, as i told them thats my style and all i'm willing to do, and they had a "pro" paid photographer for the formal stuff anyway.). I used all MFT gear (PenFii / Gx8/ G85) with the 40-150/2.8 and PL8-18 outdoors, and the PL15 and O45/1.8 indoors. I used the tiny FL15 flash for bounce fill indoors at times , usually making use of the PenF mono2 mode, but i was lucky that the ceremony was outdoors. I worried far more about angles and reading moments than i did about my outright gear, and i let the shadows fall where they fell. I got the job done, surprised myself with how well the shots turned out and found that the small bodies not only coped but made people curious and more at ease, allowing documentary style photography from a normally hesitant photographer. Best of all, the bride and groom have since told me they much preferred my 50-odd shots to the 300 shots in their official album.

Short answer - I think i could get it done with your MFT bag, though i'd probably want a longer fast prime (75/1.8) or the 2.8 telephoto pro zoom depending on the setting. But use the gear you know and love best. It'll stand up under pressure and you'll work better in your own style. Oh, and if youre using flash, make sure you know what its doing. I didnt try to get too creative, and i avoided direct flash at all costs, but i wish i was better at using it.

 

[ooheadsoo]

I've been a second before and it's a great feeling not to be the primary shooter. There's much less pressure to get "the shot." There may be a second shooter for this wedding, but I think the other person is just a friend, not an enthusiast. I would not be too surprised if he declined at the end of the day. Who needs the stress if you're not either a pro or an enthusiast?

If I didn't have pressure to get "the shot," I do think I might try the 35/85 approach, although neither my FF nor my primary m43 camera are small. I wouldn't want to use the e-m5 in this scenario.

But wait! The e-m5.3 will be out by then!

 

[dirtdevil]

I only shoot with primes inside churches (25 1.4, 42.5 1.2) and I'm ok at max ISO 800. I would also get the Olympus 75 1.8.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Update: I took some sample shots using G9+12-100 with bounced flash and d750+24-120 available light only, and the couple preferred the au naturel look. Chalk that one up to my rustiness/general lack of skill using bounce flash. Adjusting flash power using ttl is not convenient on the G9...at least I couldn't figure out a fast way to do it, and I don't want to get it wrong in the heat of the moment. Manual flash is out of the question. Well this is a relief in many ways.

 

[Stanga]

According to some past shots I've taken at the church, in the worst case scenario, I will need approximately iso 6400 to hit 1/80s at f/4.

It might be a good idea to find out what time the ceremony will take place, and what the expected available light situation might be at that time of the year. Looking at some shots that I took at a ceremony in a church at midday, it was possible to get good shots at 1/60s at f4.9 and 2000 ISO. That was with a G80 fitted with the PL14-140mm f3.5/5.3. I expect the G9 to do far better with the Oly 12-100mm f4.0.
My advice is to also shoot in burst mode with the electronic shutter for at least some shots if you are not using a flash. It helps you in avoiding ending up with the bride or the groom blinking their eyes just when you are taking a single shot with a flash. You'll at least be able to pick out the best shot from that burst, a huge benefit that the average flash doesn't offer. And don't forget to use eye detect for the facial shots! I made the mistake of leaving my camera in the wrong focus mode recently, and ended up with loads of out of focus eyes surrounded by perfectly in focus eye lashes....

 

[ooheadsoo]

It's a 2pm wedding, and I was there at roughly the same time to confirm: 1/80@f/4 iso6400 needed, at least when backlit. I wasn't able to have the spot lights turned on, but I anticipate most of the b&g ceremony detail shots to be taken from the back anyway, instead of the front where I annoy the parents by squatting in front of them.

I might bump the auto iso/shutter speed even higher. Not ideal, but doable with the d750.

 

[Aperture Don]

If you decide to get a flash unit for the D750, which you should, keep in mind that Auto ISO and Nikons do not play well together. You should also use a flash bracket which is not popular today, but could save your hide, and they’re cheap.

 

[ac12]

If you decide to get a flash unit for the D750, which you should, keep in mind that Auto ISO and Nikons do not play well together. You should also use a flash bracket which is not popular today, but could save your hide, and they’re cheap.

+1 on the flash bracket
A flip/rotate bracket is best, so that you can keep the flash ABOVE the lens when you rotate the camera from H to V orientation.
The flash bracket also eliminates the stress on the hot shoe from the flash. To me that is an accident just waiting to happen.
And you will need a sync extension cord to go from the hot shoe on the camera to the flash bracket.

Bring at least two sets of batteries, and plan to change them when you have a convenient gap in the action.

Warning, do not shoot too many rapid sequential shots.
You need to give the flash time to cool down, or you could overheat the flash, and damage it. Plastic is a poor conductor of heat.
Some flashes have a thermal shutdown circuit, so if the flash gets too hot it will turn off. But you do not want it to turn off in the middle of a shoot.

I shoot my flash on AUTO, using the sensor on the flash. Simple auto flashes were/are cheaper than TTL, and easier to use.
Camera in M mode. I just chimp the shot to see if I need to adjust the aperture for more/less exposure.
With TTL, you need to adjust the flash Exposure Compensation, which is not as easy/fast to do as M with an auto flash.

KISS.
I don't bother trying to adjust flash power.
As you said, just a bit too difficult to do when things are moving FAST.
That is one more thing to make a mistake on.

 

[ooheadsoo]

Thanks for the flash advice. I used to have two nikon flashes, but they were stolen. I am unlikely to invest more into my nikon kit at this time since I'm still stuck between my two systems. I haven't shot a live event with flash in years. My later usage of my flashes were in full manual on both camera and off camera flashes, so I'm sorely out of practice.

KISS is the right path, here. Fortunately, they liked the available light look better.

 

[Aperture Don]

They may like the available light look, but they want good shots. Since you’re their man, paid or not, you have to do a good job. No pressure.