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Latest Mirrorless Bodies

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by jsusilo, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. jsusilo

    jsusilo Mu-43 Veteran

    233
    Aug 28, 2012
    Since I'm only familiar with OMD but now considering a second body, I wanted to make sure I get the order right beginning from entry-level to semi-pro.

    If we are to list the top-5 greatest model of mirrorless bodies [not considering price as that may vary greatly for older model, used etc], would this be sort of looking like this:

    M43 sensor size
    Olympus EPL3 < EP3 < EPM2 < EPL5 < EM5
    Panasonic GX1 < G3 < GF5 < GH2 < G5 < GH3

    APSC sensor size
    Sony NEX C3 < 3 < 5N < 5R < 6 < 7
    Fuji X-E1 < X-Pro1

    I'm sorting this based literally on two seconds search off google and so it can be a complete miss but it's a start nevertheless. Comments is appreciated.
     
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  2. pictor

    pictor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    635
    Jul 17, 2010
    Sorted from entry-level to semi-pro, it should look like this:

    Olympus EPM2 < EPL3 < EPL5 < EP3 < EM5
    Panasonic GF5 < G3 < GX1 < G5 < GH2 < GH3

    It's tricky, where to put the GX1. It has better controls than the G3, but has only an optional viewfinder. I value the better controls higher, hence my ordering.

    The E-PL5 offers better image quality than the E-P3, but because of the better controls the E-P3 is more semi-pro.
     
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  3. jsusilo

    jsusilo Mu-43 Veteran

    233
    Aug 28, 2012
    Thanks for your insight Pictor. It saves me lots of time figuring things out myself. It still amazes me how many bodies out there especially on m43 knowing the technology has only been out for few years... and it still is not a mature system yet and so I expect 10+ more bodies to come out in next few years...

    I can only imagine what it would be like if Nikon 1 and Canon M accelerate their mirrorless offering ... confusingly crowded market!
     
  4. Ropes4u

    Ropes4u Mu-43 Regular

    97
    Sep 24, 2012
    I would love to see nikon throw their hat in the ring with a serious offering of lenses. The more competition the more hope there is for those of us looking to save $$
     
  5. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
     
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  6. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    827
    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    Yeah, GX1 is tough. It came after the G3 and was design to have a more "semi-pro" design than the G3, including better build quality, better grip, better controls and a few additional functions. Other than the swivel screen, I'd rate the GX1 w/ LVF-2 above the G3 in every way, having owned both for an extended period. If they had put the manual controls and grip from the GX1 into the original G3, I'd still own it.
     
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  7. jsusilo

    jsusilo Mu-43 Veteran

    233
    Aug 28, 2012
    Now that I have a very good idea whats out there on Interchangeable Mirrorless bodies. To make it interesting as if it is not too confusing already :) and if we are to go sideway a bit onto compact segment, where would the top-5 offering be. I understand there are also some good selection to choose from here (not in any particular order) e.g. Fuji X10, Sony RX100, Canon G1X, Olympus XZ1, Panasonic LX7, etc. How would one put those selection in priority order if it's all possible. Thanks.
     
  8. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    The problem with this ordering is that the EPM2 also has a better sensor, and better IQ, than the EPL3 and EP3. I'd have a hard time justifying any of the 12 MP cameras at this time.

    For Panasonic, the GF5 is the only current model with a 12 MP sensor. The G5 vs. GH2 really depends on what you value most. The GH2 has slightly better controls, a multi-aspect sensor, and better video. The G5 has an electronic (silent) shutter capability, and slightly better IQ for stills.

    The truth is that you can't really rank cameras this way. Which is "better" for any given user will depend a lot on what features matter to that user, and the uses you want to put it to.
     
  9. pictor

    pictor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    635
    Jul 17, 2010
    That's true, but not the question. The E-PM2 obviously offers a better image quality than the E-P3, but how does that make an entry level camera more pro than a high end model like the E-P3? Of course, if you value image quality highest and don't care about everything else, the E-PM2 will be much preferable to the E-P3. However, by doing that, you have exchanged the original criterium by another one. It's like ordering shoes by size and complaining afterwards, that the ordering is invalid because the tiny brown shoe is much nicer than the big green one.

    The question was, how to order those cameras from entry-level to semi-pro.
     
  10. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    If the goal of the "pro" is to make high quality images in dim light, the EPM is far more "professional" that the E-P3. If the "pro" is shooting in a dangerous situation, the EPM, because it's so easily concealed, may be better. If you need your body to stand up to being thrown around in a war zone, then the answer is different There's no single definition of "professional" or "semi-pro."

    Is ruggedness more pro than manual controls, or the other way around? Is fast burst rate more professional than high ISO capability? Is an EVF more professional than a rangefinder style body, or the other way around? There is no right answer to any of those questions. There's only the answer that's right for me, and the one that's right for you, and for the OP. And we may all choose different answers.

    My point is that the question doesn't produce useful information. As the different answers show, the order depends on each person's individual viewpoint.

    I could ask "What is more professional, a Nikon D4 or a 4x5 view camera?" Or "Which is more professional, a D800 or a D4, or a 1Ds Mk III vs. a 1D Mk III? Is higher resolution more pro than higher burst rates and faster AF, or is faster AF more professional? No matter how you answer those quesitons, it's not useful data, because the needs of the photographer and the end-product matter as much as the equipment.
     
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  11. pictor

    pictor Mu-43 Top Veteran

    635
    Jul 17, 2010
    So the only correct answer may be: specify your criterium/needs more precisely, otherwise the question is not answerable.
     
  12. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    We need a 3D graph with explicit controls on one axis, IQ on another, and stealthiness on the third. Oh yeah, price. Make that a 4D graph. Or, we could just wait and see which one goes on sale at Amazon :wink:
     
  13. jsusilo

    jsusilo Mu-43 Veteran

    233
    Aug 28, 2012
    I have to take some blame and be more clear when asking question next time. I attempted to simplify things that are simply not that simple :) especially with all those features and uniqueness that each body has to offer. Fortunately we all can still agree that EM5 & GH3 to be at top of the list for m43, the rest of the bunch however can be debated which largely hinged on prices, functionality and personal tastes. Thanks to everyone on their comments and shared opinion.
     
  14. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    Not at all possible. Each of these is just a different set of compromises.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Mu-43 App
     
  15. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    But you certainly can classify cameras according to grade and target market. Manufacturers make designations for their cameras all the time, and these classifications help to determine the final design of the camera. The problem is not the classifications, but that people do not understand what these classifications mean. For instance, people don't understand that pro-grade does not mean "what professionals use". Pro-grade means a higher build quality which is meant to handle the abuse and demands of a working professional.

    Having designed these cameras for build and durability also means that the manufacturer will pack in as much high-end parts as are available at the time, but that doesn't mean that its performance or technology is in any way superior to lower-end cameras. Any differences in performance are practically negated by the Non-Reflex (mirrorless) system because on our new reliance of electronics over mechanics. Adding higher-end physical parts and pieces will no longer improve performance. For instance, in the DSLR era a pro-grade body would have a crystal pentaprism which is heavier, brighter, clearer, and more expensive than the pentamirror systems found on consumer-grade bodies. It costs more to add something like that, so it is left to the higher-end cameras. Improving performance in a largely electronic device on the other hand, costs very little after the Research and Development is done and paid for. So Non-Reflex cameras are naturally equalized in performance between consumer-grade and pro-grade.

    In real-world practice, the general rule is that pro-grade bodies will last longer, but consumer-grade bodies will remain on the cutting edge of technology. The product lifecycle of a pro-grade camera is 3-6x that of a consumer-grade body (think 3-4 years for a flagship model, and 6-12 months for an entry-level model). So during the lifecycle of one model in any manufacturer's flagship lineup, they could have produced up to a dozen different models beneath it. How much technology do you think could have overtaken that flagship model during that time? I'll answer that question for you - lots.

    So to paraphrase... yes there is such a thing as a "pro-grade camera", "semi-pro camera", and "entry-level camera". However, these classifications have very little to do with the professional work level of the people buying it. They are just a convenient way of estimating value and durability. What an individual professional, amateur, or enthusiast photographer buys is entirely dependent on what that photographer needs or wants, not by the official designation of the camera.
     
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