Kenko-Tokina announces first MFT/NEX lens

ralf-11

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what should they do?

where are the gaps in the m43 system?

I don't think there are many, and maybe none that are commercially exploitable. Based on the entire Nikon system since the 1960s, I see only a few: DC lenses, giant teles, a long macro (200mm in FF), and a few with special distortions like the fast AiS lenses in 50 and 35 mm (FF).
 
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If you shop carefully, you can get the outstanding Olympus OM Zuiko 500/8 Reflex for well under $200. It's one of the best mirrors ever made, and it rivals refractors in sharpness and contrast.
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Hand-held, from the deck of a moving boat!
 

BDR-529

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If you shop carefully, you can get the outstanding Olympus OM Zuiko 500/8 Reflex for well under $200. It's one of the best mirrors ever made, and it rivals refractors in sharpness and contrast.

Nice shot but there is one new reason why it might be better to have slightly cropped not-so-sharp 400mm image instead of heavily cropped center from a razor sharp 200mm shot.

All these new AI tools deliver nothing short of spectacular results if only the image you start with is reasonably good. There is a limit to what they can do but the more data you feed them, the better the result will be and AI software is improving at a staggering speed.

From AI software standpoint it's much easier to just sharpen and denoise reasonably good image while keeping it's original size than to extrapolate a technically perfect image which has way too few pixels to 200% or more.
 

Hypilein

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I agree, weird bokeh is a good reason to go for these mirror lenses, but I think they are really just gimmick lenses on the same level as the 9mm bodycap fisheye (which I own and think is decent). It's not like a Panasonic 100-300 is expensive... If you want reach for cheap don't waste your money buying twice. If you want a fun toy, go for it.
 

ac12

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I have a couple mirror/reflex lenses.
If I have to reach out far, my 500 mirror beats my O-75-300 in reach.

For me, the primary benefit or a mirror lens is logistics; small and light.
It easily fits into my camera bag. Not so my brother's 500mm refractor lens. It's case is bigger than my camera bag.
Second was cost. At $150, it was a heck of a lot cheaper than the O-100-400 at over $1,000.

However, if you are not good manually focusing a lens, it isn't for you.
Focus tracking a manual lens for a fast moving subject can be/is difficult, even for an experienced manual lens shooter. If you are shooting fast/erratic moving subjects, moving towards or away from you, an autofocus lens is easier to use.

I have been puzzled by how SHORT the hoods are on all the mirror lenses that I've seen. The hood on my Nikon 500/8 is only about an inch long. That is so short that it is useless, to shield the front element of the lens. A longer hood should increase the contrast of the lens by blocking stray light.
 
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weird bokeh is a good reason to go for these mirror lenses
Sometimes it really works well!
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BDR-529

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Since this is a m4/3 forum, one thing should be made absolutely clear: Tokina 400mm F8 SZX is not a native m4/3 lens.
It's just a FF lens bundled with a mft adapter.

And what does this mean? It means that when a FF lens is mounted on a m4/3 camera, 75% of lens resolution is lost. It falls outside of m4/3 sensor area.

m4/3 camera is trying to capture 20MP out of just 25% of the full image circle this lens could deliver. Effectively mft camera is asking lens to deliver enough resolution for a 80MP FF sensor and it's not up to that task

I don't believe that anyone who uses Tokina SZX on a 24MP FF camera for which it was designed, would complain about the sharpness at this price point. FF camera is able to use 100% of the lens image area but captures only 24MP out of it. In this case the resolution that sensor can capture matches what this lens can deliver. Since this is a T-mount lens, it's possible to use it on any APS-C or FF body in the future.

Any 400mm lens mounted on a mft camera equals roughly 16x magnification for binoculars and suddenly all defects which were almost invisible with shorter lenses like even a slightest haze or distortions caused by warm air become visible when shooting subjects far away. This problem is of course mitigated by shooting something that is closer to camera but 400m lens is a good way to realize instantly that what looked like a crisp clean air is in reality anything but 😁
 

Machi

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It's a pity that most reflex lenses have mediocre image quality as it should be possible to make reasonably sharp reflex lens. Small 400mm f/5 lens would be great for travel (f/5 for compensation of central obstruction). Even better if it would be with autofocus.
As example what reflex optical system can do, here is a 100% crop from photo taken with cheap Newton telescope (just two! reflective surfaces).

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Hypilein

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Yes, I agree. It would be amazing is someone made an actual high quality AF reflex lens. The advantages of those lenses are real, but with the current offerings the tradeoffs are too high.
 

fortwodriver

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I don't think this is a solid-Cat... So it's going to have relatively middling performance. That, and at focal lengths like these, mirror lenses seem to accentuate heat-shimmer quite a bit.

Also, yeah, T-Mount - welcome back to 1982. It's not even the new T-Mount - it's the old screw-T-Mount.

Minolta had an AF Mirror Lens back in the mid-80s. It actually worked, but wasn't that popular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_AF_Reflex_500mm_f/8

I remember a few friends (or their parents, really) having them, and Herbert Keppler said it was amazing for its day, but a lot of people shrugged it off as a gimmick.
 

ac12

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I don't think this is a solid-Cat... So it's going to have relatively middling performance. That, and at focal lengths like these, mirror lenses seem to accentuate heat-shimmer quite a bit.

Also, yeah, T-Mount - welcome back to 1982. It's not even the new T-Mount - it's the old screw-T-Mount.

Minolta had an AF Mirror Lens back in the mid-80s. It actually worked, but wasn't that popular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_AF_Reflex_500mm_f/8

I remember a few friends (or their parents, really) having them, and Herbert Keppler said it was amazing for its day, but a lot of people shrugged it off as a gimmick.

From the comparison that I read, the Perkin-Elmer solid-cat did not do that well in comparison with other good reflex lenses.

ANY similar long focal length lens, reflector and refractor, will show similar heat-shimmer. Air thermal distortion is not dependent on the lens.
 

Brownie

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The Minolta AF was fairly well regarded for a reflex. The A-Mount crowd over at Dyxum rate it decent considering it's a reflex. These days they cost used about the same as the Tokina new. And even though it's a little larger I'd rather put my $ into one of those than this one.
 

Petrochemist

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Catadioptric (mirror) lenses aren't really designed for "run & gun" photography. What makes this interesting to me is that it can be focused. Most, at least back in the 1970s, were infinity fixed things aimed at wildlife photographers, and astrophotography, a tripod mount was an important part of its configuration.

One adapted oneself to the lens, not the other way around. I haven't kept up with these things, but based on my admittedly 'stone-age' experiences, it isn't clear to me what sort of photography this product is aimed at.
I have several old mirror lenses ALL can be focused & would be totally useless without changing focus DOF is far too shallow for fixed focus, especially as the focus needs adjusting as the barrel expands in hot weather. I've never heard of an fixed focus catadioptic.
Here's a shot with my old 600/8 used on MFT with the aid of a focal reducer (making a 900mm/5.6 effective combination)
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Handheld mirror test by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr
Note the subject is only about 6' away and while not brilliant this is handheld without IBIS...

I also have a newer mirror lens a Samyang 300/5.6 with a native MFT mount. It also focuses quite close as this shot shows:
44091737772_bba202d839_b.jpg
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P1160389 by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr

Both shots show the characteristic catadioptic bokeh, but i don't think it spoils either shot.
 

fortwodriver

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From the comparison that I read, the Perkin-Elmer solid-cat did not do that well in comparison with other good reflex lenses.

ANY similar long focal length lens, reflector and refractor, will show similar heat-shimmer. Air thermal distortion is not dependent on the lens.

I know that... but if you couple the dounut-shaped out of focus highlights with heat-shimmer, you're left with very complicated and very busy blur that often overtakes the subject.

We can often accept the linear look of heat shimmer in non-Cat lens photos much more readily than heat-shimmer + donut-highlights in the out of focus parts of a mirror-lens photo.
 
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I managed to snag a rare Sigma 500mm ƒ/4 mirror.
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It's actually quite nice in the centre, although as you can see, it falls off in the edges.
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Petrochemist

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I managed to snag a rare Sigma 500mm ƒ/4 mirror.
That looks a beast!
Mirror lenses are generally thought of as light weight, but I wouldn't want to carry that all day in my bag. (Yes I know It's light compared to a purely refractive 500mm f/4)
i probably wouldn't have much use for a lens like that but I'm still somewhat jealous :blush:
 

fortwodriver

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Actually the T-mount arrived in 1962.

Actually, late 50s, but the T2 mount was pretty popular in the 80s. Lots of T2 mount lenses were floating around and it seemed like everyone I knew had at least one. So I guess if we're really splitting hairs it's proper name (and eventual evolution) was "Adaptall-2" by then...
 
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