Issue with shutter speed/frame rate on Gx85 footage

nemesis82

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Apr 14, 2019
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So I bought a Gx85 a little while back (wanted the IBIS so I could use a lot of older vintage lenses I had and still have some stabilization etc) so I could start filming a web drama series I have been wanting to produce for years now and I've been doing a lot of test shots and really trying to learn as much of this particular camera as I can before going into production.

Everyone knows the 180 degree shutter philosophy where its standard practice to film at 1/50 shutter speed if your in 24fps for that supposed "cinematic" look. However what I have been observing is that the end result still looks too "video" to me and not "film" when I am filming close up dialogue scenarios. I experimented with other shutter speeds while maintaining the 24fps going up to 1/100 and as low as 1/30. To my eye at least, 1/30 or 1/40 looks more pleasing than 1/50 and above. Is anyone else experiencing something similar with any of the panasonic g series cameras or is shooting at lower than 1/50 in practice because they feel the same way I do when they look at their own footage? Could it just be an issue with my monitor or system I am viewing it on? I have been trying to take all the factors and variables and use process of elimination to figure why the "tried and true" 24fps 1/50 standard doesn't look quite right to me when being played back.

There is a filmmaker I follow on Youtube who turns out good stuff with a G7 (very similar to the gx85) and I do not see his stuff looking as "video" to me when I view his works. It still doesn't look as "filmic" with some of the motion (motion blur) in my honest opinion but is still better than what I am getting. I saw in a behind the scenes video he did that he is indeed shooting at 24fps, 1/50 so that just confuses me more as why I am experiencing worse results on playback. Is there something I am missing or another way I can go about trying to narrow down the culprit here?

Am I overthinking this? Should I just shoot in whatever shutter my eyes are telling me looks best? Appreciate anyone's feedback and suggestions :)
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
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34
I think you are overthinking. I have been shooting in 24p with the 180 degrees shutter speed rule since the vixia hv20, and achieving that 'cinematic look' has never been consistent. Sometimes it feels spot on, many times it doesn't feel much so.

I think that look is more related to the lens, lighting, color, distortion, depth of field and many other factors. Nowadays I mostly shoot at 30p or 60p (also with the 180 degrees shutter speed rule), but with shallower depth of field (nd filter a must) and high saturation. I don't get that cinematic motion blur, but I think it is in a way 'cinematic' enough.
 

nemesis82

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Apr 14, 2019
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Thanks for your reply. I agree with the comment about lens, lighting, color, etc...I guess I should have been more specific with at least what my eyes are telling me when I watch footage back. At times I feel there is too much motion blur and other times it looks too video...so in that regard you are definitely right by saying its not consistent. Maybe thats a limitation of these cheaper cameras we have to learn to live with. I would be interested to rent a RED epic or dragon or something for a day and set everything the same and play back that footage and see if the laws of motion are much more consistent etc... Outside of overthinking it or having to work with possible said limitations I was giving this more thought the other day and was wondering if maybe its the 4k high bitrate codec itself thats causing it. Im running a PC with 16gb Ram and a dedicated graphics card but kind of was my last fleeting thought that maybe its the playback platform itself struggling with the file format? Appreciate your thoughts and thanks again for taking the time to respond.
 

kevinparis

Cantankerous Scotsman
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Feb 12, 2010
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Not familiar with the Lumix cameras.. but just one thought might be to check what picture profiles you are shooting at. Certainly on Olympus cameras, these, by default can have Contrast and Saturation settings, that while are good for sharp vibrant stills, may be at odds with that film look

just a thought

K
 

nemesis82

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Apr 14, 2019
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I used to shoot on a GH4 and would change between Cine-D and Cine-V depending on what the end look I am going for is. If I know I want more color vibrancy outdoors I'll shoot Cine-V with settings at around -5 contrast, -2 sharpness, 0 ND, -3 saturation, highlights -5, shadows 0 and Cine-D usually for interiors usually -3 contrast, -2 sharpness, 0 ND, -2 saturation, highlights -5, shadows 0. I can shoot with the same profiles and settings on the GX85 and the coloration, lighting, etc will all look cinematic its more so the motion and motion blur. It tends to be inconsistent when I am playing back on multiple devices. When playing back on the Lilliput 7" Monitor or the LCD of the camera itself it looks fine which is kind of what got me thinking maybe its a codec issue or high bitrate issue that my PC and Laptop don't like to play nice with perhaps.
 

John M Flores

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Jan 7, 2011
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Part of the theory of the 180 degree shutter is that the in-frame motion blur helps the viewers’ eyes stitch together the frames into a moving image.

I agree with @2donggalbi that the filmic look is primarily created by factors besides shutter angle. Have you studied how professional DPs and directors construct their tight dialogue scenes? The contemporary way to shoot that with two characters is to start with an establishing shot and then use two cameras to capture the body language and facial expressions of each character, with lighting, set design, and FOV all carefully considered to create the desired mood.

And if you think your computer is not up to the task of showing the 4K footage reliably, render out a 1080P version and watch that.
 
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