Issue With G1 Colours

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by goldenlight, May 13, 2010.

  1. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Generally I'm very pleased with my G1 but at times I do have doubts about the rendition of certain colours. Look at this for example:-

    IRELAND_2010_P_886_e_r_s.

    It was a JPEG taken late afternoon on a sunny April day using auto WB in standard film mode with contrast and saturation both set to +/- 0. That shouldn't be a problem for the camera but to my eyes it looks a little muddy. The blues in particular seem to have a hint of brown about them and the maroon on the boat certainly seems a little browner than I remember. I don't think it's due to the exposure because although I used -0.7 compensation I bracketed and this gave the best histogram (and looked best on my monitor). I'm certain I would have got a very different result from an Oly JPEG.

    Thinking back to film days, as far as I can recall the G1 seem to render colours roughly how I would have expectd an Agfa CT18 slide to have looked (that is going back a long way). Olympus seems to give me a look somewhere between that of Kodachrome 64 and Velvia.

    Is this all in my imagination or is there any substance to this impression?
     
  2. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    There appears to me a little too much violet going on, especially in the water. The hills and the horizon look fine, though. The boat to me looks ok, but I wasn't there. The water looks unnaturally royal blue..almost to the point of violet/purple.
     
  3. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    This is quick and dirty, but it does look better IMHO.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. grebeman

    grebeman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 13, 2010
    South Brent, south Devon (UK)
    Barrie
    Whilst I shoot in RAW I have my doubts about the auto white balance on the Panasonic G1 and GF1 of which I have experience and often find that the setting selected by the camera to be,IMHO, substantially in error. I have therefore taken to setting a predetermined manual white balance, often using the shady setting which I find usually to give a much more accurate rendition of the scene (although I tend to do a lot of macro work and shady lighting is my sought after condition to reduce harsh shadows). I am thinking of using a predetermined temperature setting when I do more in the way of landscape work for example.
    I hope this might give you some ideas for further tests.

    Barrie
     
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  5. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Thanks guys. To be honest, having looked at it again I think it is generally a little too dark, especially the water. Djarum, I agree your version looks better and it's prompted me to have another attemt myself. I think this, too, looks a little better, but I'm still not sure about those colours.

    IRELAND_2010_P_886_e_V2.
     
  6. JoeG

    JoeG Mu-43 Regular

    I tried kicking up the red a bit and adding a touch of contrast to bring up the hills. I shoot most often with the white balance set to cloudy or shade. I go way back, too, and used to prefer the warm results I got from Agfacrome. By now, of course, the scene doesn't resemble what you saw--or does it?--but what the heck. All photographs are made objects.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    There's just way too much magenta for my taste in the picture.
     
  8. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    You're right. I much prefer your's and Joe's versions so far.
     
  9. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Well, this is turning more into an issue of my appalling processing abilities than about the G1. I think this version is finally getting a little better but it's still not the full ticket.

    IRELAND_2010_P_886_e_V3.

    I feel that with my lack of processing skill I haven't exactly covered myself in glory, but neither has the Panasonic; this level of intervention shouldn't be necessarry with a JPEG.
     
  10. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    Was the one you originally posted jpeg straight out of camera or RAW?

    This one looks pretty good.
     
  11. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    Thanks, it seems I'm starting to get somewhere. The first one was a JPEG, I'd been using it as a familly snapshot camera all day and should have switched to raw - at least I'd have had a bit more leeway. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for your help on this one.
     
  12. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    With color, its all about personal tastes. My biggest complaint with panasonic colors(I still have my FZ3) is that greens look a little artificial(too much blue). Fleshtones also seem off. Olympus, at least with my PEN, does fleshtones better and greens better, but in my opinion over yellows browns. For example, a tree trunk should have a darker brown appearance but in my pictures I found that the brown usually ends up too much on the yellow side or orange side. Funny thing, sometimes I find myself pushing scenery to a happy medium between the panasonic color and Oly color. I get a good compromise on greens and browns.
     
  13. Djarum

    Djarum Super Moderator

    Dec 15, 2009
    Huntsville, AL, USA
    Jason
    Just to give you an example of what I am talking about.

    This picture here, I took with the EP1 at mid afternoon. The greens are spot on, but the water and rocks have a tad too much yellow or orange for my taste.

    P2211060small.
     
  14. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    I see what you mean, but that's the sort of colour range I aim for and would be more than happy with. As you say, it's all about presonal preference.

    That's a lovely picture BTW. :smile:
     
  15. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    This is the sort of result I am used to getting from an E-3 raw file and it's just what I want, although I can appreciate it may be a little too warm for some tastes.

    IRELAND_2010_370_e_r_s.
     
  16. Bokeh Diem

    Bokeh Diem Mu-43 Top Veteran

    655
    Mar 14, 2010
    Toronto
    It may be warm, but the sky is still cerulean, not blue-green or tangerine dream. Looks very nice, like the old Agfas from Yerp in the '60s-'70s.

    Bokeh Diem
     
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  17. Bokeh Diem

    Bokeh Diem Mu-43 Top Veteran

    655
    Mar 14, 2010
    Toronto
    I have to rebuild/adjust many colour jpeg images out of the G1, depending on the light conditions. I think the AWB filter is having some trouble too like the grebeman says. Gonna have to start paying attention to this. We need a firmware upgrade.

    Bokeh D

    [​IMG]
     
  18. DavidB

    DavidB Mu-43 Regular

    58
    Apr 7, 2010
    Melbourne, Australia
    Definitely it's just a WB issue.
    I gave up years ago expecting AutoWB to get the "right" colours on any camera. Some do better than others, but really the camera has no idea whether a "green" wall is actually green, or whether the light shining on a white wall is greenish.

    RAW is your friend. Using something like a WhiBal for occasional grey reference shots, and then sampling that grey to set the WB (and copying that WB to the relevant photos) in a RAW processor has worked great for me for years, across multiple cameras.

    Recently I've been refining this by instead using a ColorChecker instead of a WhiBal and making custom DNG profiles for Lightroom/ACR, but unless you're dealing with weird lighting (e.g. low-pressure sodium lamps) just tweaking the WB in the RAW processor is usually enough.
     
  19. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    I think that my problem is that I used to manually adjust the WB through the custom setting but found that the AWB of the E-3 is so darn good that eventually it made me lazy. I'm starting to find out that I can't do that with the G1. :redface:
     
  20. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    With the original JPEG, the primary issue seems to be that the camera botched the WB with way too much magenta as a result. The auto WB should have done better.

    Here's "auto color" in PS with a hint of warming and added contrast:
     

    Attached Files:

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