is it the end of DX?

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by jaiho, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. jaiho

    jaiho Mu-43 Rookie

    16
    Jul 21, 2012
    Mumbai,India
    Hi all,
    Read this article

    http://mansurovs.com/why-dx-has-no-future

    With the current trend of people buying mirrorless systems, what is your take on this?

    Is it really the end of the road for dx users.?

    Jaiho
    -------
    Em-5
    Oly 45mm
    Pany 20mm
     
  2. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    People have been making that prediction for many years now, and I don't see anything new in this fellow's argument that leads me to think it'll happen within the next few years as he predicts. Furthermore, I think it's illogical to think that APS-C mirrorless systems will complete replace APS-C DSLRs very soon while 35mm format DSLRs stick around for many years to come.

    My predictions: Mirrorless will continue to eat into DSLR sales. Phone cams will continue to replace low end P&S cams. All the currently popular formats will stick around for a good while yet. 35mm format DSLRs are unlikely to significantly outlive APS-C DSLRs.
     
  3. KVG

    KVG Banned User

    May 10, 2011
    yyc(Calgary, AB)
    Kelly Gibbons
    I can see apsc being used much more for mirrorless cameras, but their a long way from going away.
     
  4. shizlefonizle

    shizlefonizle Mu-43 Veteran

    372
    Apr 21, 2012
    I believe so, I'm not really familiar with Canon APS-C but with Nikon you don't have many solid DX lenses especially in the short range. With mirrorless systems whether it be APSC variants or m43, lenses are specifically designed for that particular sensor size.
     
  5. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I do think that in a few years' time, it'll be a stupid idea to buy a DSLR that isn't full frame. We're still waiting for the mirrorless lens options to be filled out completely though, which will take time. The APS-C DSLR lens options are crap too, but at least they mount full frame lenses without adapters. More generally, technologies don't like dying and the Japanese in particular tend to be fairly wedged. This "future" could be ten, even twenty years away from realization.

    Nikon and Canon also seem to be steering very wide of hurting their DSLR lines with mirrorless.
     
  6. cariocaleo

    cariocaleo Mu-43 Regular

    27
    Jul 30, 2012
    I agree that the move will be eventually made, but it I believe it will take a few more years than stated... Since there is a lot of equipment that needs to be available.
    As far as DX equipment not being good enough, I disagree, there are plenty of good Nikon/canon gear AND 3rd party gear as well. And DX format is able to use full frame lens.
    I think most of us are ready to see such shift... Weight and size being the biggest disadvantages.
     
  7. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    Although I'm a huge proponent of mirrorless vs DSLR cameras, from a purely technological stantpoint, there is no way DSLRs in general will go away any time soon. It's simply too much market inertia and legacy issues (mainly, lenses), so even if every manufacturer stopped making DSLRs tommorow, they'd still be around for several years.
     
  8. Sanpaku

    Sanpaku Mu-43 Regular

    79
    Jul 24, 2012
    It struck me looking at DxOmark's ratings of lens/camera combinations that the best APS-C lenses/cameras (in Nikon DX, or Canon EF-S) have no edge whatsoever over the best lenses m43 has to offer.

    It seems 135 format full frame is where the larger camera makers have invested in superior optics, and the APS-C format lenses are comparatively poor, offering no advantage in resolution over the smaller m43 lenses.

    If I were ever to "move up" (unlikely, as my m43 system is more camera than I can fully take advantage of), I'd bypass APS-C entirely.
     
  9. jar

    jar Mu-43 Regular

    39
    Jun 25, 2012
    I agree 100%. APS-C DSLRs aren't better enough to be worth the size/weight penalty. The only applications they might be are for continuous AF. Hopefully there will soon be a hybrid AF :43: cam to fix this.
     
  10. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    I can't wait to read Bhupinder's comment on this :biggrin:
     
  11. drewbot

    drewbot Mu-43 Top Veteran

    702
    Oct 21, 2011
    Toronto, ON
    Oly OMD is the king of MFT. No more compromises with DSLRS.

    Cheers
    Bhupinder
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    Concerning sensor comparisons, my argument is that, in near future, differences will be so minor in perceived and useful IQ that we will stop chosing sensors by size, in that regard.

    IMHO, useable DR will come to an upper limit gradually, and differences between a sensor even smaller than :43: (RX100 anyone? seen the DxO report?) vs a FF sensor will not matter that much. I leave Foveon and similar sensors out of the discussion for the moment. And we should talk more about the whole imaging "mechanism" in camera, not just the sensor (i.e. filters, engines, firmware solutions, etc).

    This is how I see things develop, anyway. The game is on systems, not sensors.
     
  13. jaiho

    jaiho Mu-43 Rookie

    16
    Jul 21, 2012
    Mumbai,India
    The weight/portability and convenience which the m43 system is providing is hard to beat.

    Have become a big fan of the om-d and small lenses.
     
  14. strang

    strang Mu-43 Veteran

    287
    May 7, 2012
    I wish someone other than Sigma started a system based on Foveon.

    Back on topic.

    While I largely agree with mansorov's thoughts on the sustainability of DX/EF-S. I don't thnk it'll be quite that simple. Pending on how well the RX1 do and what Sony I tend on doing with the sensor going forward, we may begin to see some mirror less interchangeable bodies using 135 format sensors.

    Until that system matures, DX/EF-S will still have a market. It'll eventually stagnant enough that Canikon abandons it.
     
  15. SZRimaging

    SZRimaging Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 16, 2011
    But you can't change physics. This isn't to say that the Sensor won't render as good of an image from a smaller format to a larger one, but that the way lenses render won't change with equal sensors.

    I like the look of longer lenses for portraits. Yes, the 45mm is nice, but a 90mm on 35mm just looks a bit better. So for some of us, we will continue to choose the camera based on the format and not the sensor size.

    That said, I look forward to the death of mirrors. They are becoming irrelevant. It'll be a few years, but it is coming.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    There is nothing about DX that is incompatible with mirrorless. While it is quite possible that APS-C DSLRs will disappear in the next 4-8 years, I see no reason why the lens mounts will necessarily follow suit. Nikon in particular has a strong history of maintaining compatibility, and I doubt they will jettison that.

    Mirrorless cameras with APS-C sensors, EVFs, on-sensor PDAF, and possibly shorter register distances with adapters for current lenses seem the most likely outcome to me.

    DH
     
  17. With_Eyes_Unclouded

    With_Eyes_Unclouded Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 17, 2012
    Vassilios
    Exactly. I agree 100%, esp. with the last sentence.

    Also agree about the "look". That's why I talked about "systems". An even easier example than how lenses render would be that FF or MF would give a different DOF perspective than smaller sensors. This is neither an advantage or a disadvantage. There is (and will be) place for anything, they are all tools, it's just that sensor size per se doesn't have the meaning it had some years ago.

    OT, there is the possibility that Canikon will at some point abandon the mirror mechanism for their cameras with sensors smaller than FF. That is a marketing decision and, again, there is a lot of legacy baggage (EF-S/DX specific lenses).