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IS Canon EOS-M a threat to MFT?No its not :)

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Bhupinder2002, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Wow ..another day and an other camera but this time DSLR leader enters the market with an interesting product .Many of us and media will see this camera as a threat to MFT but IMHO its not a theta at all.
    EOS-M is a very good product and looks very promising but so did others when they were launched . MFT is a format supported by two major manufacturers and its a well established system now . Newer MFT cameras like OMD has shown that they can challenge high level APS-C size cameras when it comes to performance and DR range , so Canon needed something extra special challenge it . On the other hand its very good begining and we have far more choices now than what we had five years ago when there were just P&S , DSLR to choose from . Lets hope Canon makes interesting pancakes and we get to use them on MFTs..lol.Feel free to give your opinion and this was MHO .
    Cheers
    Bhupinder
     
  2. blue

    blue Mu-43 Veteran

    280
    Jun 1, 2010
    UK
    It's often been said that m43 just hits that sweet spot in terms of size/quality compromise. The APSc "compacts" are going to struggle with making smaller lenses, and nowadays with the IQ of the OMD and hopefully G5/GH3 there's very little loss for m43 there.

    And one thing that m43 have had from the early days was a commitment to really top quality lenses, I guess from the Pana 43 and Oly legacy. That makes the system for me - what could you replace the 25 1.4, 45 1.8, 45 2.8 , 20 1.7 , 75 1.8, 12mm 2, 7-14 mm or even the 100-300 mm with ?

    Maybe, eventually the Nikon 1, NEX and Canon EM will catch up to this sort of lens line up (though I think Fuji X pro is actually the one to watch here) .
     
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  3. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    574
    Aug 16, 2010
    Australia
    In the long term it's a threat. Having a large sensor than :43:, and the ability to use EF-S and EF lenses to their full potential, as well as any and all EX flashes with the camera, that makes it VERY attractive to all Canon shooters. Sony already have quite the following with their NEX cameras. Well, this is the beginning os something even bigger - the Canon photographer population is much larger than the Sony photographer base, and now all those photographers have a direct and easy way to go mirrorless without losing any of their lenses or accessories in the process! Not only that, they have a larger, better-performing sensor in the camera - why would they give up the use of all their lenses and accessories to switch to an unknown (to them) system with a smaller and inferior sensor? (Not a dig at :43:, just stating the facts).

    It remains to be seen what Canon do with it, but I have a feeling this is only the first instalment of a line of cameras that will eventually cover all mirrorless market segments (much like Olympus does now with the OM-D, EP3, E-PL3 and E-PM1). If so, they don't have much opposition - only Sony and Fuji offer anything that competes directly with what Canon have just brought out, and the Fuji is vastly more expensive than the Canon offering, as is one of the Sony models.

    Things are getting interesting, and it's good for us photographers. It's good to have some real competition going on between the manufacturers at last! :smile:
     
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  4. blue

    blue Mu-43 Veteran

    280
    Jun 1, 2010
    UK
    To add, the Samsung NX system has potential with their body and lens line up but the downside of huge image files etc.
     
  5. Liamness

    Liamness Mu-43 Veteran

    375
    Apr 20, 2011
    Yeah, it's like the NEX system but with a bigger installed base to start off with. All of the users who bought entry-level Canon DSLRs in the last decade, during the explosion in that section of the market, will be ripe for switching. I doubt users who have mainly shot film will find the switch so easy though. Full-frame glass will make little sense on this body, adapter or no adapter.

    So now Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Olympus + Panasonic, Pentax, Samsung, and Sony all have their own camera systems. I think that's everyone, right? It's wonderful to be around when there's so much competition going on.
     
  6. pharaviel

    pharaviel Mu-43 Veteran

    313
    Jun 20, 2011
    Reggio Emilia, Italy
    Daniele Frizzi
    For me is other: will not ever get me out of m43, but for me can be a complement for fast portrait lenses with shallow depth of field. This or the A12 gxr module.
     
  7. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    574
    Aug 16, 2010
    Australia
    I voted "Yes it is a threat". Not in that it will wipe :43: out of existence, but in the sense that it will steal a lot of sales from :43: in the future. Many more sales than the Nikon 1 system, and more than the Sony NEX system. Especially after Canon flesh out their EOS-M camera line-up (this is only the first shot across the bows from Canon).
     
  8. Keith

    Keith Mu-43 Regular

    55
    Jul 16, 2012
    Australia
    Canon didn't get to where they are by sitting on their hands. Give that camera an EVF the likes of the one in the OMD and style it to make it more attractive and Canon fans would be tripping over themselves to own it.

    I see it as a threat to MFT.
     
  9. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It's definitely a competitor, but in the short term it probably helps MFT by bringing attention to mirrorless CSCs at a time when the majority of people in many countries are still pretty much unaware of this class of camera. People will read the reviews of the new Canon and learn that it is a type of camera which exists in a market where Micro 4/3 has a more mature lens lineup, etc.

    In the near term, Canon is going to steal a lot of entry level Sony NEX sales. Long term, Canon has a great chance to lead the CSC market.
     
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  10. Uwharrie

    Uwharrie Mu-43 Veteran

    239
    May 10, 2012
    North Carolina
    Lynne Ezzell
    It will be interesting to see. I am still struggling to like the M43 over my Canon DSLR system. The lack of fast zooms lens with IS in the M43 is frustrating to say the least. I do a lot of environmental portrait work and am missing the shallow DOF I get with my 70-200 2.8.
    I have not given up yet though!
     
  11. drewbot

    drewbot Mu-43 Top Veteran

    702
    Oct 21, 2011
    Toronto, ON
    I don't see how this is not a threat. Of course it is.

    The big C totally dominates the compact P&S market. Everyone knows Canon Powershot. Now, they have a large sensor stuffed into a similar non-intimidating form.

    I can already picture the Best Buy rep pushing EOS M over m43 "because it's Canon".

    Many gear heads will dismiss the M, but they too dismiss the Rebel DSLR - the worlds' most popular DSLR.

    However, once a GH/OM-D/D7000/60D/7D spec'd body comes out with native fast lenses, well see how m43 will fare.
     
  12. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    What I think some folks are missing is that EOS-M can be a big success without appealing to enthusiasts in the slightest. The bulk of m4/3 sales are not to people of the sort that frequent this forum - they are to folks who want an attractive smaller-than-DSLR camera that produces high quality images. They don't an extensive lens range, and I expect for many the touchscreen controls are preferable to buttons and an EVF. For those type of purchasers, the main thing offputting with the EOS-M is price. If they adjust that (and I expect they will), Canon marketing and distribution will take care of the rest.

    Despite being derided frequently here, the Nikon 1 sells quite well. I wouldn't expect anything less of the EOS-M.

    DH
     
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  13. agpr

    agpr Mu-43 Regular

    153
    Nov 2, 2010
    Heraklion, Crete
    I own Canon slr with some canon lenses, which I really like. Even though my 40D is five years old, still delivers. In fact, in terms of dynamic range I find 40D better than my OM-D5 (IMHO and using only Olympus viewer, not lightroom!). As far as AF speed concerns, I think it's still better than my Olympus.

    Having said the above, I am a Canon user and a very satisfied one. Still, I use more my Olympus. It's far easier to carry and use my Oly with three primes and a zoom than my 40D with 10-22 and 15-85 (excellent lenses). Of course I have no real complaint about OM-D5's quality.

    Where new Canon M fits? It doesn't really look any better than my 40D, at least not in the AF area. Would deliver better image quality? Don't really know, but I bet it would be measurable but not really perceivable. Where that leaves me? In the sum of weight (camera and lenses) I am getting rid of most of 40D's weight, but still I have to carry this fine and heavy lenses.

    The Canon M will be lighter and smaller than Canon dslr, but the combo camera and ef/ef-s lenses will be heavy and probably not well balanced. So, if marketing don't work miracles, m4/3 is not at risk.
     
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  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    The EFM, I think, is pretty good looking and has a nice new pancake, at least spec-wise. It also like has access to that 40mm pancake, though you'd need an adapter.

    However, I've become un-enamored with Canon's APS-C sensor. It's OK< but my last camera -- T2i -- wasn't blowing me away compared to my EPM1! (Output was better, but not -- I NEED THAT NOW! better) With the OMD sensor, I wonder what the difference would really be.

    Canon will get some attention, and legitimize the space. So that's good. Sony's got some new lenses coming out at some point (right? they keep saying that it is so).

    But I think if Oly releases new Pens in the next few weeks and if they have the new sensor, Oly especially will regain a lot of interest. Pens are always sexy, always compact, and if they have the full touch screen, EVF access, brilliant new sensor, etc. then they are a real player.

    I'm not a GH3 type, but if that comes out weather sealed, better video, etc. it will likely continue to hold the mini-DSLR/high end video crowd.

    I think m43 is in good shape. I think NEX is still it's stronger competitor, but they have systemic issues in their flange-back design (waiting to be proved wrong by their supposed new lenses). Canon's got catching up to do (typical for Canon), Fuji's gone niche and Nikon's gone off the deep end. m43 will be just fine.
     
  15. littleMT

    littleMT Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 8, 2012
    Lucille Sanchez
    I really like this setup, and might get it and put the 22mm pancake to the test..
     
  16. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Lol...I am also interested in the lens rather than the camera.
    Cheers
     
  17. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Maybe, but there has to be two things to make this a threat:

    One, which seems very likely, is a massive advertizing campaign.

    Two, the rapid introduction of a second body with EVF, and a bunch more lneses, coupled with a massive price drop on this first body.


    I think there are some real weaknesses with this first offering. The lack of a built-in flash, and the large size and price of the add-on one, will be a real turn-off to P&S upgraders. The price is going to meet with a lot of resistance, I believe. With flash, this thing costs as much as a Rebel 4Ti, has no viewfinder, no built-in flash (having to carry around a separate flash negates a lot of the convenience of the small body), weak AF performance (based on the Rebel 4Ti's performance in live-view mode). With the zoom and flash, it's going to cost nearly twice what a GF5 costs, and a lot more than a G3 or G5 with flash and EVF built-in.

    The external flash system would appeal to serious photogs, but the rest of the camera seems geared to P&S upgraders. Seems to be a disconnect in there somewhere.
     
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  18. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Hi guys
    I tend to differ a bit , MFT is well established and have so many lenes to offer . Canon will need few years to catch up and then make multiple bodies available catering lower end to higher end buyers . In MFT you can pick up EPL1 body for USD 129 and start shooting with prime of your choice without breaking your bank. My gut feeling is that Canon will won't offer too many primes with this system , they would like u to buy adaptor and then use existing lens line . Moreover this camera makes perfect sense for someone who has already a big collection of Canon gear and just want more portability . Will this camera offer better IQ than current PEN series ? Possible tie here . Then what sort advantage this will offer over MFT ? Possibly none at this moment IMHO . Lets wait for proper product to hit the market and then see.
    Moreover , will Oly and Panny will sit quietly and let their product line drown ? No , I think this will beef up the competition and we as consumers
    will get more benefit . Panny and OLy will have to lower the prices , offer us better technology incase they wanna stay in business in camera line . Lets hope to get more and more toys to play with . Finally I am very happy as people are getting proper cameras to capture their memories and keep them for long time . I always regret for not having a DSLR when I look back some pics of my daughter I shot 7 years ago .
    Cheers
    Bhupinder
     
  19. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    I think you overstate the importance of primes. The folks here who buy all the Oly primes are not the typical consumer. Zooms are far more important in the broader market.

    Tie? Seriously? This will most likely wipe the floor with the current Pens in terms of DR and high ISO capability. We need to see what Oly comes up with for the next series of Pens, but the old 12MP ones are seriously behind the curve in terms of IQ.

    Competition is almost always good for consumers, but not always for the companies involved. If (and I'm not saying it will) it forces m43 prices too low, and takes too many sales from m43, Panasonic could decide it's not worth competing in this market segment any more. Cameras are a small part of Panasonic's business, and would probably be easy to jettison if not profitable.
     
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  20. Rudi

    Rudi Mu-43 Top Veteran

    574
    Aug 16, 2010
    Australia
    Yes.

    Better IQ: more dynamic range, more DOF control, etc.

    Yes, we will all benefit, but Panasonic and Olympus cannot put a larger sensor behind their existing lenses. There is only so much they can do to compete. Maybe they will do it on price, but there is no company better able to compete on price than Canon, so they don't really want to do that - Olympus photo division is already haemorrhaging money, and Panasonic aren't doing terribly well in comparison.