I want a fast native ultra-wide PRIME

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Promit, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I've tried the 7-14, and the Tokina 11-16 on APS-C. Both gave me the same experience -- the zoom part is pointless (and I love zooms). I'd rather just have a prime on the wide end of the scale with a simpler optical design and a solid aperture. I don't even care if it's a Rokinon manual focus deal. On m4/3, I'm thinking something in the vicinity of 8-9mm f/2.8, and probably about $500. That's essentially the same price as a Canon or Nikon 20mm f/2.8, and substantially cheaper than the 7-14. The extra stop would be useful too.

    I know everyone loves to obsess about the telephoto lenses, but a new ultra-wide prime would go a long way in augmenting the two ultra-wide zooms, both of which are first gen lenses...
    • Like Like x 3
  2. brettmaxwell

    brettmaxwell Mu-43 Veteran

    Dec 8, 2012
  3. gochugogi

    gochugogi Mu-43 Veteran

    I suspect an ultra wide for M43 would have very limited returns in a such a small market, and thus would need to be very pricy to cover costs of even a modest design. They're hard to come by for APS-C DSLR and that's a much larger market.
  4. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 20, 2013
    I think if such a lens existed it would do well. I think it would compliment the 12-35/f2.8 very well.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I have the Rokinon thinking it would do the trick. It is a very fun lens, but trying to defish to replace a rectilinear UWA is a mistake IMO.
  6. hookgrip

    hookgrip Mu-43 Regular

    May 21, 2013

    Ultrawide lenses are difficult to design, and many of the older UWA primes are not sharp corner to corner, even when stopped down. Despite the short flange distance of M4/3, ultrawides still require complex retrofocus designs and exotic elements to produce a high quality lens. MFT is a pretty small market, and I doubt there's very high demand for the existing 7-14 and 9-18, so there's little motivation for Olympus or Panasonic to invest the time and money to develop a UWA prime.

    Even in the FF DSLR world, zooms like Canon's 17-40L and Nikon's 14-24 are much more popular than their fixed counterparts.
  7. RnR

    RnR Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Samyang (Pro Optic, Rokinon, Bower) 14mm f2.8 with a Metabones Speedbooster for the Nikon mount. Gives 10mm f2 effective. But its a little more than $500, and you may have to exchange the lens a few times before getting a sharp copy.
  8. MarylandUSA

    MarylandUSA Mu-43 Veteran

    Jul 3, 2013
    Poolesville, Maryland
    Paul Franklin Stregevsky
    Last week I traded my Rokinon M43 fisheye for a Panasonic 14/2.5 plus cash. i'll use the cash toward a Panasonic GWC1 converter lens, which will turn my 14 into an 11. From image samples I've seen, you give up little in quality. Check out the sharp results in this video review.
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Mellow

    Mellow Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 27, 2010
    Florida or Idaho
    Why does it need to be fast? (Seriously, I don't know.)
  10. LovinTheEP2

    LovinTheEP2 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 15, 2011
    Only reason I can think of is the 2 stop loss of dof in m43, not for light gathering I'd imagine. Then again, can't visual many times where a you'd "Often" use a 10mm extreme shallow dof.. But that's just me.

    Just curios, can post pictures of your style of photography that requires such a setup.
  11. twokatmew

    twokatmew Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jun 1, 2012
    Lansing, MI, US
    Good luck getting one at the $120 list price. They've been backordered from Panasonic forever. :frown:

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
  12. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    Because I don't use wide angle just for landscapes, and the extra aperture gives me flexibility with shutter speeds and ISO. Actually I use the wides a lot for video, which locks down my shutter speeds to a narrow range. The more aperture flexibility I have, the better.

    Plus I find that a good fast lens stopped down usually does better than a slow lens wide open.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. KBeezie

    KBeezie Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 15, 2012
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Karl Blessing
    I'm curious on the 'fast' part, when you're talking ultra wide (say less than 10mm? ie: less than 20mm equivalent), DoF wise you probably wouldn't notice a difference between 2.0, 2.8 or 4.0 especially once cropped to a m43 sensor size.

    Also to get something like an 8mm @ 1.4 or 1.8 even is going to be one heavy (and expensive) piece of glass, and they usually don't try to make a lens that's 4x heavier than the body for m43 (least outside of a telephoto zoom :p )

    One of the main lens that comes to mind for wide and fast is the Olympus 12mm f2.0, but since it's a 24mm equivalent I'm guessing that doesn't fall within your definition of ultra-wide.

    My Conclusion : m43 bodies are not exactly the market for "ultra wides", we're lucky enough to get wide equivalents down into the 1.4-2.0 range.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. daum

    daum Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 26, 2011
    Me too. 7mm prime even at f4 is fine by me.
  15. KBeezie

    KBeezie Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 15, 2012
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Karl Blessing
    Most of the time when someone needs that extra stop is for stabilization, course ultra wides are not as affected by camera shakes as normal-tele lens. Also for video you're often times shooting under 1/100th anyways (if you can get up over 1/250th you got the light you need, and probably shooting something outdoors or sports, etc).
  16. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I am frequently in lighting conditions where f4 at 1/50s is an uncomfortably low amount of light. I can sacrifice the 180 degree shutter, or I can boost ISO, but I prefer to open up before doing either of those things. F2.8 is hardly an unreasonable request for an ultrawide prime. I think such a lens could be smaller than the existing 7-14.
  17. KBeezie

    KBeezie Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 15, 2012
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Karl Blessing
    Depends on what you mean exactly by ultra-wide prime. Because 12mm for example isn't ultra-wide in my opinion as it's a 24mm equivalent. Also the 7-14 zoom you mentioned is a flat f/4.0 and about 1600 USD. A 7mm @ 2.8 is going to be significantly larger (not smaller).

    If it wasn't unreasonable, you'd see it on the market already.
  18. dougjgreen

    dougjgreen Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 5, 2013
    San Diego
    Doug Green
    Not really. A good estimate for how small a 7mm f2.8 prime could be would be the Cosina Voigtlander 15mm Heliar for full 35mm frame. The fact that the 7-14mm zooms at a 2X ratio makes much more difference for added size than 1 stop of aperture would
  19. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    For Aurora for example. But there are plenty of low light settings where noise becomes a big problem when you go to higher ISO. I have problems even w/ the 12mm f2 wide open.
  20. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    I'm wanting the same lens you do.

    But as far as I know, there is only one F2.8 UWA prime being made for APS-C -the just barely UWA 14mm Samyang. So there must be a significant design/cost/ market problem. That's what has made the Tokina 11-16 so popular.

    I'm planning an Aurora trip & if nothing new is released soon, will be renting/buying the Tokina 116 + an APS-C body to use it on. But Olympus does not have a UWA rectilinear lens of any speed in 43 either.

    The tests I've seen of the Tokina 116 show it to be surprisingly good which indicates this is not likely a lens design problem that is keeping us from having a fast UWA prime for MFT.
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