I have upgraded from Win 10 to 11 .... Bad idea!

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

I trusted Microsoft, they promised this fine it's going to be different, better.
It is not.

I let my laptop, Asus ZenBook Pro Duo, Upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 yesterday as it notified me that "we" are *ready".
It took about one hour to download (through WiFi 6 so not exactly slow speed) and started the update with more then 6 restarts of the laptop. About 40 minutes later I am greeted by the new UI ... And I have to say it looks prettier but unnecessarly dumbed down. Most power user menus and features are hidden behind another click (like More Options, 3 dot buttons, Extra Menu, etc).
And I get hit by a big problem (for me) just a few hours later when I needed it the most, the Camera Club meeting was starting on Zoom and I always use my Samsung Galaxy Buds Plus on my laptop for their excellent passive noise isolation Via Bluetooth 5.0, Windows 11 sees the earbuds, connects to them but when I go tot he Audio panel every time I try to select them as the Output source the panel refreshed and the earbuds disappear from the selectable options all together. And the same happens when I dig deeper in the Audio Devices Menu. I was unable to connect any Bluetooth Audio Devices as Output on my laptop anymore and I have tried the "Switch it on and off (Bluetooth)", I have tried Remove Bluetooth Device and Connect Bluetooth Device, I have tried Driver Update, Reboot Windows.

Then during the Camera Club meeting I get hit by another problem, the promise of better multi-screen support was a lie because where Windows 10 would let me have 2 full screen softwares work on each screen on my laptop now Windows 11 halves the 2nd full screen software by misalignment of the software render position:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

(Damn web mobile upload rotation bug)

I think I may "Downgrade" back to Windows 10 by the end of the weekend.

 

[John King]

@L0n3Gr3yW0lf Ovidiu, that's why I'm still using Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on most of my PCs.

And Office 2003 Professional.

Both are stable, and I handle my own security.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

@L0n3Gr3yW0lf Ovidiu, that's why I'm still using Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on most of my PCs.

And Office 2003 Professional.

Both are stable, and I handle my own security.

As much as I was fond of Windows 7 features are being deprecated from Windows 7 and even hardware compatibility and optimisations ... (maybe if I wasn't into gaming I would be fine with it ... but I do love to play games for the last 28 years).
Also, AMD and Intel are moving towards hybrid CPU design the way ARM makes their System on Chip ... Intel is coming out with other big.Little design in a few weeks and compatibility will be mostly relegated to Windows 11 (for maximum performance) and it is this (badly) needed just google AMD Ryzen Windows 11 performance hit.
Because Windows 11 had their task scheduler designed for multi-size and multi-type chiplets for Intel Alder Lake, AMD Ryzen was slowing down as much as 15%.

Right now, hardware-wise, there's a lot of innovation that is finally catching up from the last 7 years that is coming with huge improvements within the span of 24 months ... and what a bad timing because of the shortage and pandemic: DDR5, PCI-Express Gen 5, 5nm scaling for large chips (because of this rumours are that GPUs can see more than 50% improvements in power to performance ratio), 5G, Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4, nVME 2.0, 120 Hz OLED, HDR above 1.000 Lumens (a huge improvement and life changer in terms of screen quality) and so many more.

 

[John King]

@L0n3Gr3yW0lf While I agree with all that, the ability to write tight code seems to have died a death. This lack requires very fast hardware to run the extremely bloated code at a reasonable speed!

Run my 1995 multi-user accounting software in a DOS VM running on 2012 hardware under Windows 7 and you see how fast well written code can be.

The accounting software was originally written for MSDOS v.5, but had a 32 bit Windows front end attached to it. So even it was a bit of a klutz. But it was fast then, and even faster now. Tight code, dual pass compilation.

 

[oldracer]

Many years in tech have taught me one thing: It is the guys who are out front who have the arrows in their chests.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

Many years in tech have taught me one thing: It is the guys who are out front who have the arrows in their chests.

Well .... Until I took an arrow to the knee

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

I believed in Microsoft because they and others said they have fixed the weird windows being stuck in disconnected displays area, being unable to retrieve them unless connecting back the screen and dragging them.
As well they fixed windows repositioning themselves every time you add or disconnect displays, and they fixed then up to 5 seconds or even more to reactivate and "reorganize" the display arrangements when adding and removing displays.
My laptop has 2 displays which I use quite a lot because the bottom one holds adițional content like chat windows, browser, videos player, reference pictures, etc. Especially when I want to use the stylus for local adjustments because the 2nd screen has a texture grip for the tip of the pen and when I duplicate the main window I get black (and inactive input area) bars on each side of the 2nd screen with perfect room for my hand to rest and not interfere with unnecessary input.
I swear that Asus ZenBook Pro Duo is the most perfectly imperfect laptop for photo editing .. it's so close to be everything one would want but it fall short at the 98% with inconsistent UI and unnecessarly inconvenient hardware design.

 

[Phocal]

you should have upgraded to Big Sur.

 

[Projectdb]

I believed in Microsoft because they and others said they have fixed the weird windows being stuck in disconnected displays area, being unable to retrieve them unless connecting back the screen and dragging them.
As well they fixed windows repositioning themselves every time you add or disconnect displays, and they fixed then up to 5 seconds or even more to reactivate and "reorganize" the display arrangements when adding and removing displays.
My laptop has 2 displays which I use quite a lot because the bottom one holds adițional content like chat windows, browser, videos player, reference pictures, etc. Especially when I want to use the stylus for local adjustments because the 2nd screen has a texture grip for the tip of the pen and when I duplicate the main window I get black (and inactive input area) bars on each side of the 2nd screen with perfect room for my hand to rest and not interfere with unnecessary input.
I swear that Asus ZenBook Pro Duo is the most perfectly imperfect laptop for photo editing .. it's so close to be everything one would want but it fall short at the 98% with inconsistent UI and unnecessarly inconvenient hardware design.

Definitely not attempting to defend Microsoft, but the second screen issue sounds like something that needs to be addressed by Asus.

I was hesitant to upgrade my laptop, as I'm traveling for the foreseeable future and depend on it to pay the bills. I did end up jumping to Windows 11 (Dell XPS) and haven't had any issues, although Dell released new Windows 11 drivers through the management software as soon as the Windows update was finished.

Sorry to hear you are having troubles, I would maybe check for some driver updates.

 

[pdk42]

From all I've read of Win 11 to date, it looks unfinished and not really ready for prime time. I won't be upgrading in a hurry.

 

[pdk42]

you should have upgraded to Big Sur.

Maybe - but Apple have gone ARM now, which reduces the limited Win app compatibility that Macs had before.

 

[RichardC]

Maybe - but Apple have gone ARM now, which reduces the limited Win app compatibility that Macs had before.

He could always get a Mac to go with Big Sur. That would fix it

(I'm a convert - the worst sort).

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I’m of the opinion that Windows 11 was made specifically for Intel’s new CPU architecture (Adler Lake). With it’s big.LITTLE CPU core configuration, it needed a brand new OS scheduler. Because of the launch time table, Windows 11 went from the announcement of a new OS to “launched” in just a few months, coincidentally so it was ready just before Intel’s launch of Adler Lake (12 series). Adler Lake is rumored to perform quite terribly under Windows 10 (rumors say it will only run the efficiency cores). Intel ”worked closely” with MS to get this new scheduler going. To top things off, at launch, Windows 11 had a ”bug” that decreased Ryzen performance by 5-20% versus Windows 10. I haven’t viewed Windows highly in years, and this situation doesn’t help that opinion one bit.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

He could always get a Mac to go with Big Sur. That would fix it

(I'm a convert - the worst sort).

Wish I could, would ... afford it. I was thinking of Mac Mini M1 as a temporary and more affordable solution but I need a monitor to make it work ... and with the current shortage, it can be difficult to find most stuff. Then Apple managed to surprise everyone with their new MacBook Pro and M1 Max ... but the cost is eye-watering and my heart can take only one heart attack at a time.

 

[comment23]

Wish I could, would ... afford it. I was thinking of Mac Mini M1 as a temporary and more affordable solution but I need a monitor to make it work ... and with the current shortage, it can be difficult to find most stuff. Then Apple managed to surprise everyone with their new MacBook Pro and M1 Max ... but the cost is eye-watering and my heart can take only one heart attack at a time.

If your budget could cope with the M1 Mini then it might stretch to a certified refurbished M1 Air. That’s the route I’ve taken and very pleased with it I am too.

 

[D7k1]

Running great on my AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor 12 core/24 thread AMD and 6700 GPU: PS/LR, Samplitude, Resolve, Office, DCS world. 21 TB's on line, 1 Gig SSD for system & programs. 27" 1440 and 50" 4K screens.

 

[pdk42]

Running great on my AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor 12 core/24 thread AMD and 6700 GPU: PS/LR, Samplitude, Resolve, Office, DCS world. 21 TB's on line, 1 Gig SSD for system & programs. 27" 1440 and 50" 4K screens.

That’s some system!

 

[D7k1]

That’s some system!

Thank you. Am upgrading the 50" to a 120mhz for DCS world, other than that I think it is at least a 5 year system. Resolve and 4k/5.5K video is the stressor

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Wish I could, would ... afford it. I was thinking of Mac Mini M1 as a temporary and more affordable solution but I need a monitor to make it work ... and with the current shortage, it can be difficult to find most stuff. Then Apple managed to surprise everyone with their new MacBook Pro and M1 Max ... but the cost is eye-watering and my heart can take only one heart attack at a time.

Check the Apple refurb store. It’s essentially like buying a new device. I’ve purchased more than one Apple refurb and you’d never know the difference. Even the base mini/Air are very good performers.

Running great on my AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor 12 core/24 thread AMD and 6700 GPU: PS/LR, Samplitude, Resolve, Office, DCS world. 21 TB's on line, 1 Gig SSD for system & programs. 27" 1440 and 50" 4K screens.

Yeah, the Ryzen performance regression should be patched now, but not before Intel could pre-launch Adler Lake “regrettably” using the hamstrung Ryzen benchmarks for their press release. The regression had to do with performance issues on the L3 cache. This bug had been reported and upvoted to MS through the feedback hub months before Windows 11 released. The developer channel version of Win11 had the bug fixed before launch, too. It just seemed like fishy business, especially since MS and Intel “worked closely together” on the new scheduler. It wouldn’t be the first time Intel‘s contirbutions have resulted in performance degradation on the competition. MS also threw in some arbitrary hardware security requirements for Windows 11. It’s like the OS was designed to help MS and Intel sell new PCs. I guess that wouldn’t be a first either. At one time, MS said Windows 10 was supposed to be the last version of Windows, though I think many didn’t find that claim very believable, even back then.

 

[archaeopteryx]

From all I've read of Win 11 to date, it looks unfinished and not really ready for prime time.

I get a bit of that flavour as well. I've three Windows devices, one that's probably never going to be eligible, one that was originally listed as eligible by its manufacturer but has been removed from the manufacturer list and currently shows a message saying Microsoft's doing more testing before enabling it to update, and one that's marked eligible which I haven't rolled forward yet. So far I'm not getting search hits for actual experiences of how Windows 11 interacts with the eligible device, which probably means it updates fine, but I'm content to give it some time.

One thing seems to be Microsoft pushed out support for older Intel processors. At the moment only 8th gen and newer are supported by 11.

It’s like the OS was designed to help MS and Intel sell new PCs.

I think every major Windows release has been used that way, with it being more a question of how aggressive the marketing push is. Windows 11 feels to me mostly like an extension of Intel's process problems and market share flailing, though, and I find myself more sceptical of it than probably any release besides Vista, not that 8 was great. Windows 10 support's supposedly going until 2025, 10 has been everything I've needed for a long time, and I'm not due for a hardware refresh. So I'd prefer to wait and see. At work we're entirely a Zen 3 shop for performance computing so I don't think anybody's in a hurry to migrate those machines either.

I'm curious how Linux benchmarks will compare but it seems unclear when Intel might get the kernel updated. That somewhat contributes to my sense Intel's flailing, alongside other things like the company's AVX512 reversal and the Rocket Lake backport.

(rumors say it will only run the efficiency cores)

Seems unlikely. Benchmarks have been leaking for some months, commonly showing 10-15% increases on Intel 12th gen. So far it appears what Windows 10 won't do is interact with the Intel Thread Director when affinitizing threads to cores. As a result, a thread you'd like to be on a performance core may end up running more slowly on an efficiency core. I've not come across an indication of how large this penalty is. But I'm also not sure it'll matter too much (in a very wide sense) since most people buying 12th gen will have the machine running 11.