I hate people wearing masks

[moonhawk]

@moonhawk It's funny - we agree on some stuff here.

Self-induced co-morbidities. This should be screamed from the TV and social media platforms every day, but we barely get a whisper. I'm not suggesting we should care less for people whose personal choices have put them more at risk, but clearly calling out what a healthy lifestyle and diet look like it, and maybe even incentivizing good choices in some way [gasp; gov't over reach], would be a good idea. This goes way beyond Covid, obviously. Biggest health issue we have in the US.

Economic impact. I think I read $17 trillion in US, and that's far from the end-state. Enough said, I think.

Depression/societal impact. While this does get publicity, I really think it's way understated. Kids being in school is the biggest issue to me, and we have failed to address that for a year now.

But all this just adds to the frustration I have about masks. Wearing one is a tiny, tiny sacrifice. The rest of that is not. Not to rehash the science debate, but if we strictly followed masking protocols I think a lot of the other issues would be mitigated to some degree. And again, if I'm wrong about that, I think the potential to limit socio-economic impact would be well worth the inconvenience because I may be right.

I'm sorry to go at you on this Dave, but you are the kind of person that concerns me. You're clearly intelligent. You've studied the issue. You have anecdotal knowledge as well. All that makes you very credible, and makes it likely that you can and do influence people who don't check off all or any of those boxes.

That's OK. I can take it. It seems we may agree on more than I previously thought.

 

[jhawk1000]

Mob rule defines the Trumpers on 1/6/2021 at our capitol. Mob rule is far from democracy. And our states have done a miserable job overall at managing the covid matter. Look at South Dakota, Iowa and even my State of Kansas that seems to not be able to vaccinate or get enough product. On some things, a unified response is needed.

 

[demiro]

... And our states have done a miserable job overall at managing the covid matter. Look at South Dakota, Iowa and even my State of Kansas that seems to not be able to vaccinate or get enough product. On some things, a unified response is needed.

It seems to me than many politicians in current and previous administration have talked about a "war footing" in response to Covid. I often despise that kind of characterization, but I think in this case it's spot on. Kansas and New York and Oregon didn't fight separately in WWII, and they shouldn't be now. Different states have different needs, and that can be worked out, but the big picture stuff needs to be coordinated nationally.

 

[Keeth101]

And all this discussion/talk etc. because @agbfoto posted some great pictures of wall paintings but used his imagination to get the best out of them. Let's not forget that.

 

[PhotoCal]

I think about the last pandemic, H1N1 in 2009, and how a competent federal response put it to rest. The same federal response kept Ebola, SARS and MERS from becoming epidemics in this country.

My mask has made this one of the first winters I've not had a cold. Allergies were better all last year, too.
The masks are a cheap and easy prevention resource, just like handwashing.

As for outings: I will never patronize businesses that fought COVID restrictions.
You will never see me (or take my picture) in South Dakota.

I like public officials who are concerned about my health and safety, and not just trying to get into my wallet.

 

[PhotoCal]

It seems to me than many politicians in current and previous administration have talked about a "war footing" in response to Covid. I often despise that kind of characterization, but I think in this case it's spot on. Kansas and New York and Oregon didn't fight separately in WWII, and they shouldn't be now. Different states have different needs, and that can be worked out, but the big picture stuff needs to be coordinated nationally.

If this was WW2, some states and politicians would have been on the side of the Axis. We're still seeing their anti-American behavior.

 

[agentlossing]

"Ramshackle" approach may be the result of having a federalist system of Govt. Fifty independent States each approaching the issue in their own way, hopefully for the right reasons. The advantage is that we can compare notes, and see for ourselves what works and what doesn't , Our system has been described as fifty independent laboratories of democracy. Although I detest that word Democracy. It amounts to mob rule. That is why Benjamin Franklin told a questioner outside of Independence Hall that we would have a "Republic, if we can keep it." that looks to be in serious doubt these days.

All this I'm totally in agreement with. American government was built to be unwieldy, it's a feature not a bug. It was seen as a safeguard against tyranny and I don't think that aspect has gotten any less important now than it was then - but is certainly detrimental when a concerted effort against an infectious disease is called for. Not sure what the right steps should have been, but we must be careful as with nearly everything these days not to throw the baby out with the bath water. That's the trick of modern society, built as it is on the top of many layers of established and scrupulously recorded society underneath it.

 

[PacNWMike]

The cure is far, far worse than the disease. Millions out of work, thousands of businesses closed, schools shut down, depression, drug use, suicide all up. And the results of the most restrictive states no better than the most open ones.

If the "cure" as you derisively call it were instigated and enforced in a timely manner rather than be ridiculed by certain influential leaders then the resulting pain could have been much less and of a shorter duration. e.g. Oz. NZ, China. If economics is your argument then you shot yourself in the foot.

 

[John King]

"Ramshackle" approach may be the result of having a federalist system of Govt. Fifty independent States each approaching the issue in their own way, hopefully for the right reasons. The advantage is that we can compare notes, and see for ourselves what works and what doesn't , Our system has been described as fifty independent laboratories of democracy. Although I detest that word Democracy. It amounts to mob rule. That is why Benjamin Franklin told a questioner outside of Independence Hall that we would have a "Republic, if we can keep it." that looks to be in serious doubt these days.

As far as "Cavalier", I don't think you have been reading what I've daid very carefully.

Dave, Australia also has a federation.

The first thing our Prime Minister did when this started to take off was form a 'national cabinet' of all state and territory Premiers. This body then coordinated our national response in every respect.

The USA government system may be designed to be 'ramshackle' as a protective mechanism, ours is designed to be iron clad with State's rights enshrined in our Constitution. Our federal government cannot turn a spade of soil in a State or Territory without having permission from that State or Territory government.

With different flavours of government split evenly (4 of each) over our 8 States and Territories, things could have fallen apart along party lines as they did in the USA.

However, they didn't. We have a (relatively) functional democracy here.

Strong cooperation was the order of the day, and it worked well. Not perfectly, but well.

And I have read every word you have written carefully, and with thought.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

As best I can assess, my mask offers me around 15-20% protection, but someone else's mask offers me 85-90% protection from their illness.

It is not a zero sum game.

We both win from wearing masks, and we both lose if one of us doesn't.

Only in the USA and some European countries could the wearing of masks even be an issue!

On a lighter note ...

Time was, my bank would not let me inside if I was wearing a mask; now they won't let me inside unless I am wearing one.

Must be a confusing time for bank robers... I imagine in the more southern states it feels exactly like the Ye'Ol Wild West... Add some steam-punk tech and you got a classic Will Smith fun ride.
(The only difference is the villain went from this:

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

to this now:

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[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

Must be a confusing time for bank robers... I imagine in the more southern states it feels exactly like the Ye'Ol Wild West... Add some steam-punk tech and you got a classic Will Smith fun ride.
(The only difference is the villain went from this:
View attachment 876051 to this now:
View attachment 876050

As if it could not get better: