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I feel compact sized bodies are missing these days

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by Yong, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    By compact sized, I mean E-PM2 size. Or, GX1 at maximum.
    Generally my idea about camera size has been 'smaller is better'. But after trying GM1, I learned there actually exists such a camera can be described as 'TOO small'.
    Although I like my E-P5, sometimes it feels little bit large and heavy. Granted, one needs somehow decent physical dimensions to acquire good ergonomics and performance, but I'm still missing my E-PM2 which has sold. Its control was lacking too far behind from good, but it was still very compact while maintaining longer battery life than GM series.
    These days almost every lines of models has grown bigger. GF7 may be an appropriate compact sized body, but it shares small battery with GMs.

    If there comes E-PM sized camera under 300g with two dials(+a mode dial of course) and decent battery life, I'll run into it. And how do you think of it? Do you satisfied with size of current bodies?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. dornblaser

    dornblaser Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 13, 2012
    Chicago-area
    David Dornblaser
    I thought that E-PMx series was too small and did not have enough controls. I like the E-M10 II and E-M5 II size and control layout.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    The E-PL7 is same size as the GX1, the GF7 is smaller while still being larger than the GM1.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Wisertime

    Wisertime Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 6, 2013
    Philly
    Steve
    You still have to put a lens on it. The EPM2 was ok, but anything larger than the 45mm is too big for it to have any advantage (pocketable). It was good with the 14 or 20 pancake, but I found the controls lacking and tiny buttons a bit of a hindrance. Ok for snapshots on the go, but not a "go to" camera. I'd prefer the EM5 anyday. The IBIS was not great either. I guess I was spoiled by the EM5. I'm happy with the current size bodies and I like having a VF. My EM5 is now my "light and compact" camera and the EM1 is my favorite. When I have the EM5 in a small bag with a smaller lens, I barely know it's there.
     
  5. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    Yes, I agree with that. But I think we can have a camera which is smaller than now yet having decent controls. Nikon J5 can be a good benchmark here.
     
  6. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I think there's certain ergonomic and handling compromises when going really small. For example, the LCD gets shrunk, and controls get really fiddly. I think the E-M10 series cameras are good size for a near full-featured camera.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    Maybe this is the reason I want compact. Every lenses all I have are 17mm, 25mm, and 45mm. If I add bigger lenses in the future maybe I'll be limited with PM sized cameras.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    Like you said it's compromise between compactness VS. features&handling. I'm just more weighted to compactness side.
     
  9. Yong

    Yong Mu-43 Regular

    96
    Sep 25, 2014
    That's right. What I can't see is why both bodies have only a single control dial. It seems me to not impossible to having 2 dials on the bodies.
     
  10. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    The GM5, even though it's only a few shavings larger than the GM1, doesn't feel "too" small somehow, mainly because the tiny thumb rest fixes my main issue with GM1 ergonomics - nowhere for your thumb to go. Of course, I don't really use it without the grip, but it's still better than the GM1 without it.

    Even with the grip, the camera is still as small as a GF3.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    The weird thing is that the PM2 is just about perfect managing with one dial .. if you stick a lens with a working aperture ring on it. Which they weren't really big into at that point.

    Agree it's better handling in some ways than the P5, for me the difference is that the PM2 with a light lens can balance almost entirely supported on my thumb along the bottom with my fingers on one hand just resting on it, the P5 wobbles around too much if I try that.

    I don't know why they don't go for the RX line and do a pop-up flash + pop-up EVF PM camera.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Tilman Paulin

    Tilman Paulin Mu-43 Veteran

    329
    Jun 10, 2013
    Dublin, Ireland
    It's great to have the option for a small camera.
    While my E-PM2 couldn't be my main "do-all" camera - I still love it's small size.

    When I want to/have to go really light I happily accept the compromise in usability (which with the SuperControlPanel isn't really all that bad).

    A lot of the time these days I stick the Samyang 7.5mm fisheye on the E-PM2 and have it with me in a small belt pouch (in addition to my main camera).
    Saves me from switching lenses all too often :)
     
  13. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I'm not really sure what size class is missing among current models: Compact Camera Meter

    You really can't go smaller than the GM1 and we have several options in between there and the E-M10. (E-Pm2 shown for reference even though technically not current)
     
  14. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    For me the big issue is how small (+ light weight + ergonomic) is it with the bits they don't show in the photo. Getting something PM2 or even PL7 sized that had 1) fully articulating LCD, 2) pop up, bounceable commander flash, and 3) a good quality pop up VF-4 style tiltable EVF, 4) weather sealing, would be a big deal (actually let's add "and 5) a battery grip" while we're dreaming). I would absolutely pay the kinds of money they wanted for the GX8/PEN-F launches for that. Sony are actually pretty close to having nailed this with the RX-100-IV last year. But it seems like it's all on the same track in M43 since the GM5 - "here is a small camera, that is small because you have to carry all the other bits with you".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Neither the E-PM2 or GX1 have dual dials. Both the E-PL7 and GF7 have a single dial and mode dials as the GX1 does. The E-PM2 doesn't even have the mode dial.
     
  16. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    918
    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    My EM5 is my "big" camera and I don't want anything larger. I've use several small cameras. The EPM1 was fine, once I got used to the spartan interface. I would shoot legacy lenses with it. The EPL5's tilt screen, touch controls, and better sensor made the EPM1 obsolete, at a minimal cost in size.

    I added the GM1 when it went on sale because of smallest size and WIFI. I don't find it too small. For me, it's more a lack of understanding of the menu that limits my use, not the controls. In S mode, I do have to carefully twirl the dial to change shutter speed, but I can also invoke the screen slider and use the touch screen. I don't miss the EVF, as I can grab another camera if I want one. I do wish it had a tilt screen. I cannot get the low shots that the EPL5 or EM5 can do.
     
  17. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    which is why I still have my GF-1 :)
     
  18. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    Both GX1 and GM5 have Panasonic's excellent click-wheel which basically acts as two control dials rolled into one. For example, in the aperture priority mode you can control both aperture and exposure compensation with one dial and switching between 2 parameters is as easy as pressing the dial.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  19. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Actually all the bodies mentioned here have basically that same feature, single dial with button to swap feature. The E-PL7 being the only one where the button in not actually part of the dial. Thou the GX1 and GM5 dial is more convenient and doesn't take up a slot on the 4-way controller. I was just pointing out that there are bodies of the size and that non have the dual dials, either the ones the OP noted or the ones I mentioned.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Edit: moving my post to a new thread
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2016