I can't use the "Noise Reduct." option in Olympus Workspace.

iansmith

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
32
I am trying to remove hot pixels from a series of night shots but the "Noise Reduct." button is greyed out and won't let me select it.

I've taken pictures with the "Noise Reduct." option in the camera set to Off, and took dark frames with the lens cap on but I can't use them in the software.

No matter what I do, that option will not enable. I've clicked on hundreds of previous images, taken new pictures with every setting I can think of switched on and off, but nothing works, the option is always greyed out. Camera is an EP-5. Software is the latest version 1.5.

Anyone know what is wrong? Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • OW Dark Frame.jpg
    OW Dark Frame.jpg
    26.1 KB · Views: 44
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
5,057
Location
Sydney, Australia
Can you try with another camera, i think i read somewhere that some options are camera specific
Exit
I presume you are shooting RAW

Looking at other replies I think my assumption above is not correct
 
Last edited:

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,781
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Do you have it set for Auto or ON in the camera settings? The little box at the bottom of the window seems to imply if in camera reduction (dark frame subtractions) was already applied, then Workspace won't try to apply it again.

EDIT: duh just noticed in your original post you said it was set to off. But triple check it. Maybe you did set it to off but then subsequently reset to one of your myselfs that reset it to Auto or ON without you noticing?
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
3,697
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Real Name
John ...
I am trying to remove hot pixels from a series of night shots but the "Noise Reduct." button is greyed out and won't let me select it.

I've taken pictures with the "Noise Reduct." option in the camera set to Off, and took dark frames with the lens cap on but I can't use them in the software.

No matter what I do, that option will not enable. I've clicked on hundreds of previous images, taken new pictures with every setting I can think of switched on and off, but nothing works, the option is always greyed out. Camera is an EP-5. Software is the latest version 1.5.

Anyone know what is wrong? Thanks!
Noise reduction can only work in-camera. That's how it is designed to function. Its 'proper' name is dark frame subtraction.
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,781
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Noise reduction can only work in-camera. That's how it is designed to function. Its 'proper' name is dark frame subtraction.
The Olympus Workspace help file (pgs. 47-48) does not seem to agree with you.

Noise Reduct. (RAW Images Only)

You can reduce the noise caused by long exposures.
Block the light from the lens by attaching the lens cap or by other means and capture an image under the same conditions as during actual shooting, and set that image as a dark frame.
Noise is reduced by subtracting the dark frame from the target image for noise reduction processing.

Note
* Dark frames are images in which only the camera-specific noise is recorded. Because the appearance of noise changes depending on the temperature of the image sensor, etc., it is necessary to take dark frames under the same conditions as for the target image for noise reduction processing.
* This function is not applied to images to which the noise reduction has already been applied with the camera during shooting.
 

Ross the fiddler

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
4,366
Location
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Real Name
Ross
Noise reduction can only work in-camera. That's how it is designed to function. Its 'proper' name is dark frame subtraction.
Olympus workspace allows a user to save a 'dark frame' to the use in post with Olympus Workspace. Ideal for multiple frames that need 'Noise Reduction' but would interrupt the sequence timing.

1630456508874.png
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 
Last edited:

Ross the fiddler

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
4,366
Location
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Real Name
Ross
See my response to Patrick, Ross.

Nothing beats the real thing, hot pixels and all.
I just added a screen shot & the RAW file 'dark frame' needs to be shot under the same conditions, in other words, at the required length of exposure being used at the time. For example, it could be taken at the end of a sequence of frames (with no Noise Reduction applied to the frames to be edited, i.e. OFF & not Auto or ON).

1630456739975.png
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
3,697
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Real Name
John ...
I just added a screen shot & the RAW file 'dark frame' needs to be shot under the same conditions, in other words, at the required length of exposure being used at the time. For example, it could be taken at the end of a sequence of frames (with no Noise Reduction applied to the frames to be edited, i.e. OFF & not Auto or ON).

View attachment 905669
It's a good feature, Ross, but a real DFS frame taken after each frame would be superior. Both logic and quantum mechanics dictate that to be the case.
 

Ross the fiddler

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
4,366
Location
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Real Name
Ross
It's a good feature, Ross, but a real DFS frame taken after each frame would be superior. Both logic and quantum mechanics dictate that to be the case.
Maybe, but if the photog takes it in the same conditions (it's up to the photog to get the best results still) then the same hot pixels are likely to be close enough in intensity etc, meaning a night scene can be captured without long delays between each (long) frame sequence. Night skies are one such example where some users turn OFF NR deliberately. That means each frame is cleaned fairly accurately.
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
3,697
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Real Name
John ...
Maybe, but if the photog takes it in the same conditions (it's up to the photog to get the best results still) then the same hot pixels are likely to be close enough in intensity etc, meaning a night scene can be captured without long delays between each (long) frame sequence. Night skies are one such example where some users turn OFF NR deliberately. That means each frame is cleaned fairly accurately.
True, Ross.

Near enough may well be good enough.

I have no practical examples of each approach. Maybe one of those who are committed to testing everything to the nth degree can do that experiment for us ... ;) .
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,781
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Be that as it may, Patrick, but OWS cannot emulate the specific hot sensor of the real NR dark frame subtraction.
Sure, but we are drifting off the original topic of this discussion which was not when should the dark frame be taken but instead that the OP can not get the dark frame subtraction feature to work at all in Workspace when the instructions/help file indicate he should be able to do it with a separate "dark frame" file for the .orf he wants to apply it against.
 
Last edited:

John King

Member of SOFA
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
3,697
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Real Name
John ...
Sure, but we are drifting off the original topic of this discussion which was not when should the dark frame be taken but instead that the OP can not get the dark frame subtraction feature to work at all in Workspace when the instructions/help file indicate he should be able to do it with a separate "dark frame" file for the .orf he wants to apply it against.
Quite. Sorry about that.
 

PakkyT

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,781
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Quite. Sorry about that.
I wonder if he is ever going to actually come back and answer questions?

To the OP, I finally got around to loading up Workspace, picked a random ORF file from the this year on my E-M1.1 and I was able to both check the "Noise Reduct." radio button or click the Select Image rectangle (either one does the same thing) and in both cases I was given a pop up warning about the dark image must be shot under the same conditions. And when I picked Close it then gives me the browse dialog box to pick my darkframe shot, which I don't have so I couldn't proceed any further.

However, when I pick an ORF file from my E-P2 (taken the same day) like you I can not click on anything in the Noise Reduct. tool box to get it to anything. I just confirmed in the E-P2 user manual that this camera also supports this feature in camera. And I confirmed on the camera itself that I have that setting on OFF so it isn't a case where the camera pre-applied this and now Workspace can not do it again.

So I am at a loss of why the different behavior.
 
Last edited:

RAH

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
2,116
Location
New Hampshire
Real Name
Rich
I wonder if he is ever going to actually come back and answer questions?

To the OP, I finally got around to loading up Workspace, picked a random ORF file from the this year on my E-M1.1 and I was able to both check the "Noise Reduct." radio button or click the Select Image rectangle (either one does the same thing) and in both cases I was given a pop up warning about the dark image must be shot under the same conditions. And when I picked Close it then gives me the browse dialog box to pick my darkframe shot, which I don't have so I couldn't proceed any further.

However, when I pick an ORF file from my E-P2 (taken the same day) like you I can not click on anything in the Noise Reduct. tool box to get it to anything. I just confirmed in the E-P2 user manual that this camera also supports this feature in camera. And I confirmed on the camera itself that I have that setting on OFF so it isn't a case where the camera pre-applied this and now Workspace can not do it again.

So I am at a loss of why the different behavior.
In my experience, OWS is very finicky about when it thinks a file is open (as opposed to just selected in the thumbnails). If you haven't double-clicked an image's thumbnail (i.e. to open it), you cannot do very much to it, even it appears in the large view as well as in the highlighted thumbnail view.

Or something like that. I kind of forget, but I remember beating my head against the wall for a while wondering why it wouldn't let me export a file, which I was just trying to convert from ORF to Tif. I had to double-click the thumbnail first; then I could export it. Anyway, try some of that...
 

iansmith

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
32
I wonder if he is ever going to actually come back and answer questions?

Sorry about the delay! I had posted this question in a few other places with no response and assumed it would be dead here too, but am happy to see such a lively discussion. 😀

After reading the comments here I found an ORF from a newer camera to download and that works in my software, but no images from my EP-3 or EP-5 work. So it looks like it's a software bug or a limitation with my camera which is a serious bummer either way. I uploaded one of my raw images if anyone want's to test or maybe can see something I'm doing wrong in the settings.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19VSLoFfPMzasdIvIKnFEFp5vtYnbTPFZ/view?usp=sharing

e60haEF.png
Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


As for why I am using dark frames, it's mostly for making long exposures for astrophotography. If I am taking a series of 30 second exposures, needing to do a dark frame every picture means I only get half the images. If I'm trying to do star trails which might mean several minute exposures, dark frames would leave gaps. In my experience the dark frames are very consistent once the camera stabilizes it's temperature. In the example above it was taking a serious of 6 second exposures for lightning shots, and using dark frame in camera would have missed more than half of them.
 

Ross the fiddler

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
4,366
Location
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Real Name
Ross
I wonder if he is ever going to actually come back and answer questions?

To the OP, I finally got around to loading up Workspace, picked a random ORF file from the this year on my E-M1.1 and I was able to both check the "Noise Reduct." radio button or click the Select Image rectangle (either one does the same thing) and in both cases I was given a pop up warning about the dark image must be shot under the same conditions. And when I picked Close it then gives me the browse dialog box to pick my darkframe shot, which I don't have so I couldn't proceed any further.

However, when I pick an ORF file from my E-P2 (taken the same day) like you I can not click on anything in the Noise Reduct. tool box to get it to anything. I just confirmed in the E-P2 user manual that this camera also supports this feature in camera. And I confirmed on the camera itself that I have that setting on OFF so it isn't a case where the camera pre-applied this and now Workspace can not do it again.

So I am at a loss of why the different behavior.
It would seem only raw files from later models such as E-M1 I & II onwards can be used as I was able to apply the dark frame to both those raw files, but with my E-M5 the option wasn't possible.
 
Last edited:

Ross the fiddler

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
4,366
Location
Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Real Name
Ross
Sorry about the delay! I had posted this question in a few other places with no response and assumed it would be dead here too, but am happy to see such a lively discussion. 😀

After reading the comments here I found an ORF from a newer camera to download and that works in my software, but no images from my EP-3 or EP-5 work. So it looks like it's a software bug or a limitation with my camera which is a serious bummer either way. I uploaded one of my raw images if anyone want's to test or maybe can see something I'm doing wrong in the settings.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19VSLoFfPMzasdIvIKnFEFp5vtYnbTPFZ/view?usp=sharing

View attachment 906072

As for why I am using dark frames, it's mostly for making long exposures for astrophotography. If I am taking a series of 30 second exposures, needing to do a dark frame every picture means I only get half the images. If I'm trying to do star trails which might mean several minute exposures, dark frames would leave gaps. In my experience the dark frames are very consistent once the camera stabilizes it's temperature. In the example above it was taking a serious of 6 second exposures for lightning shots, and using dark frame in camera would have missed more than half of them.
It's not a bug, just some features added to OWS only apply to certain models. Dark frame NR operates in camera on all the models, but using that feature in post is limited to later models (E-M1 I & II for me, but not E-M5).
 

Latest threads

Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Forum GIFs powered by GIPHY: https://giphy.com/
Copyright © Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom