HSS and low speed burst

Discussion in 'Lighting Forum' started by ThomD, May 14, 2017.

  1. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    I was shooting a triathlon yesterday and it would have been nice to have the option to use a flash as a fill at around 4fps. Is there any compatible system that can recycle that fast? Obviously over heating is an issue if you over do it.

    My Metz won't recycle that fast at even 1/4 power. My Godox AD360 won't go below 1/8 power in HSS, so it won't recycle that fast either.
     
  2. Repp

    Repp Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    826
    Jan 27, 2011
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Could you shoot at a lower shutter speed and power and not use HSS, letting light from the flash freeze the runners instead? Maybe even play around with 2nd curtain sync?
     
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  3. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    Thanks for the suggestion. I did change up how I was shooting based on ambient conditions changing. I was shooting the ride portion early in the day, so I was in the shade when I started and in harsh sun when I finished. The riders were sweeping through turn about 8 feet from me, so even panning I needed to be about 1/350 to keep them crisp.
     
  4. Repp

    Repp Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    826
    Jan 27, 2011
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Thats one of the fun parts about flash. For the most part, your shutter speed no longer matters for what the flash is illuminating. The flash duration becomes your new shutter speed. @MichaelSewell@MichaelSewell did a tutorial about freezing the motion of strawberries splashing milk, same principal applies to other moving objects, such as runners.
     
  5. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    Both Quantum qflashes (no HSS) and the Olympus FL-50r FP flash with a battery pack can easily accomplish 4 fps. Since your panning, set the flash to 2nd curtain sync and use 1/320 or slower and don't use (deleted- you won't need) FP (HSS).

    I would hope the Godox units at 1/2 power can keep up at 10fps without HSS. If not then I may keep my qFlashes.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  6. Repp

    Repp Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    826
    Jan 27, 2011
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Clint, what kind of recycle time are you getting on your qflashes? the AD360 at full power recycles in just over 2.5 sec w/ the double cord adapter to 1 flash. The AD200 is just about 2sec, so 1/2 power would be about 1 sec recycle time. I think you'd have to be down below 1/64 or 1/128 power to get 10fps.
     
  7. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    At full power 1 - 2.5 seconds depending on battery charge. At 1/2 power it will easily cover 6 fps (at 10fps it'll miss one or two frames, but I never know which frames!) - at 1/4 power no issue with 10 fps.
     
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  8. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    Doesn't apply when there is strong ambient light. Maybe I could have NDed my way to a solution, but there wasn't time to play with that. Back to my original question.

    To add a little more info, I was shooting riders going 20 mph 9 feet from me, with a blind approach. There is no way I can pan that reliably at less than sync speed in strong ambient light.

    In fact, in this spot low speed burst mode would not have worked very well. I couldn't really see them until they were a dozen feet off to my side. I had no problem with timing individual shots and did get some good results. With bursts of just 3-5 I probably would have had too much dead time between shots. I had a working window about 1/3 - 1/2 second wide to get the shots I wanted. Of course, some riders were slower or went wider and were easier to get.

    It just had me wondering what the start of the art was WRT to combining HSS and burst.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  9. Bytesmiths

    Bytesmiths Mu-43 Veteran

    The OP didn't seem concerned about action freezing, rather, he asked about fill flash.

    If you have the freedom to do so, I'd throw a sheet of aluminized insulation panel down between me and the runners.

    But that's tough in a crowd. Perhaps you could conspire with other photographers to make this happen.
     
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  10. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    Interesting idea. I should have had my VAL hold a reflector. (I need to use a reflector more). She was cross the street calling out as riders where coming in, so she was already hard at work.
     
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  11. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    For the AD360 at 1/8th power, with the Y cable, at 5fps, I get about 3 shots, then it slows to firing every other shot. At 1/16th it keeps up for 10 shots, then starts to slow.
     
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  12. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I guess it is one of the benefits of big expense. qFlashes work great, extremely reliable, very versatile, a very complicated system with a big learning curve. The units I have are 8 years old or older and have only required some firmware updates. And did I mention expensive!
     
  13. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I don't know how long a FL-50R would last firing that many shots and using FP with a HVP.

    I should have mentioned the very recent state of the art for Olympus - With FP/HSS and many fps are now the Elinchrom and Profoto systems. If you do these types of shoots often you should be able to rent one of these systems for a very reasonable rate. I rent a Profoto B1 Location Kit for $100/day.
     
  14. MichaelSewell

    MichaelSewell Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    863
    Sep 1, 2015
    Burnley, UK
    Michael A. Sewell
    @Repp@Repp & @Clint@Clint

    Your AD360 recycles at 2.5 sec on full whack, as mentioned above by Repp.
    However, making use of the Godox "Y" connector, two male ends, one female, halves the recycle time.
    I never used my AD360s without it.
    Be careful when ordering though, as there is also a "Y" connector that is the opposite, allowing the use of two heads from one socket, so your AD360 would then take half a day to recycle. :sleep:
     
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  15. MichaelSewell

    MichaelSewell Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    863
    Sep 1, 2015
    Burnley, UK
    Michael A. Sewell
    That'd be whilst in HSS mode, I'd guess. I used to get an awful lot more frames at 1/8th before impact, when used in standard mode.
     
  16. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    That was not in HSS mode. Battery meter says nearly full.
     
  17. MichaelSewell

    MichaelSewell Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    863
    Sep 1, 2015
    Burnley, UK
    Michael A. Sewell
    Then that's a bit pants.
    I used to get a lot more frames out of my AD360 with a D4 going full chat.
     
  18. ThomD

    ThomD Mu-43 Top Veteran

    575
    Jun 1, 2013
    SF Bay Area
    That's interesting. I just double checked. at 1/16, mine will do 5fps steady . At 6 fps it starts to stutter after about 7 shots.

    This is Adorama's Flashpoint 360 (non TTL) with the BP 960 pack. and the Y cable. I wonder what's different.
     
  19. MichaelSewell

    MichaelSewell Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    863
    Sep 1, 2015
    Burnley, UK
    Michael A. Sewell
    That's the identical setup to mine, except it was branded Lencarta.

    Unfortunately, I ditched all the Nikon gear, as well as the AD360 due to my Elinchrom tie, otherwise I'd have run a sequence for you.
    At an 8th output, I was getting 5fps, although not always. Sometimes it seemed steady at 4fps, but that could easily be down to specific AD360, or battery pack, as I was running six of them.
    I know I had two packs that seemed to discharge a little quicker, and they possibly affected recycle, but I didn't actually test them.
    A poor cable can also affect recycle time, especially if you use the extended cable.
     
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