How much better do you need?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by Speedliner, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    This isn't intended as a this platform vs another platform commentary. I was just watching this from Nikon/McNally and thought that these D500 images are gorgeous. APS-C sensor, 20MP...I wondered, how much more IQ do we need?

    I guess that's a constant question and I guess the answer is that we don't need it, but must he nice to know your gear is awesome in so many scenarios.

    I guess one answer to how good could it get and we'd want is... this good on a 100mp sensor so we could crop aggressively, artistically and retain high IQ.

    I don't know...rambling, but I thought these images looked amazing and wondered what more I'd ever want.

    Gave me hope that e-m1, mk2 really could be awesome.

    Anyway, enjoy the images if nothing else.

    The Nikon D500 and a Dancer: Street Scenes, Studio and the Stage with Joe McNally - Image Chaser
  2. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    The only thing that regularly frustrates me is that I don't have quite as much dynamic range as I'd like. But for a big enough step up to matter, I really would probably want to jump to something like an A7r. APS-C is a pretty marginal improvement.

    The A6300 offers some improvement, but it comes with a huge pile of compromises that would bother me compared to the bodies I'm used to. An A7r does as well, but at least it has much better sensor performance to make up for it. The D7200 is probably the best DR for the money on the market, but at this point in time I find the usability of DSLRs to be quite frustrating.

    Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

    Low light noise is not really a concern for me, and resolution is an endless rabbit hole, but the surest solution to improve that is just better lenses. And there's no such thing as a cheap, good lens for Sony FE. Even decent legacy lenses are often over $300 these days.

    So I'll continue to bide my time and see what happens. There's nothing on the market that ticks all my boxes, so at this point I'll just live with my really-very-good GX7 and leave it at that.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. Nathanael

    Nathanael Mu-43 Veteran

    Oct 12, 2015
    I want less noise with high ISO long exposures.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    We always look for something better, but even a Canon SureShot gives quite good image quality for most applications. If you're making a living with your camera you have to use what gets the shot; studio photography begs for medium format, sports and action demands portability and the ability to follow action (detail's a smaller consideration), while landscapes and scenics depends on the eventual size of the image when it's printed. Considering the 4/3rds format is capable of outresolving film-based medium format, it's a bit of a fools game to long for better.
    I remember my mother entered a camera club competition in the late '80s with a square format Kodachrome slide of a sunset; she made it through 3 rounds of judging before anyone noticed it was a 126 format transparency. Tweaking and peeping isn't the result - an enjoyable image is. If you look at your pictures and respond viscerally to what you first see, there's not much need to go to 'bigger/better' formats or equipment for now.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Machi

    Machi Mu-43 Veteran

    May 23, 2015
    I suppose that I'll be always happier with better resolution, better dynamic range, less aberrations etc. but
    for now I'm "happy" with the fact that I'm the main limitation of my camera! :) 
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Improved noise. Simple. It not only helps in low light, but by giving more latitude for shadow pushing, it improves DR too. Most of the time u43 is good enough but there are times when I need to push shadows more than I can.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  7. ionian

    ionian Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 20, 2016
    Kent, UK
    I'm happy as it is - perfect tracking for toddlers maybe. I wouldn't sniff at more dynamic range but I understood that was one of the compromises of the system I chose.

    What I really need is unlimited air miles so I can see and photograph everything I wish, and I don't think that will be bundled with a camera any time soon...
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  8. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Need is often a rationalization of want. A more honest question is, How much better do you want?
    • Like Like x 4
  9. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Rob, it isn't "really" the d500. It is the photographer - he could also make M4/3 sing. There are thousands of shitty pictures out there with D810s etc...

    Look up BobbyTan's shots
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  10. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    I stopped needing more in about 2009 when Canon released the 18MP sensor that was usable up to ISO 6400. 16-20MP m4/3 is better than that now, so I really couldn't care less about sensor performance.

    I'm actually more interested in cell phone sensor tech. Those are getting very impressive! Many of the higher end ones are now very usable up to ISO 1600 now and come with f2 or faster lenses. Meaning they are very versatile everyday cams.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I find the ~25-28mm focal length @ 16:9 to be really restrictive for an everyday camera. Useful for random documentation, but I've never bonded with it.
  12. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Legend

    My last 3 phones in a row have been 29-30mm and 4:3 (Apple, LG and OnePlus) That crops to 35-40mm for people pics without too much of a hit.

    I'm hoping the dual camera craze continues to catch on and we can get one at 28 and other at 55mm or something like that. Use a little cropping or digital zoom to stretch that to 35 and 70mm equivalent.
  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Hmm, it looks like my LG G4 is also 29mm focal length. It just seemed wider, I guess because of the 16:9 ratio. Well maybe it's for the best I never got the PL 15/1.7, doesn't seem like I'm in love with that FL.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Did Bobby give up his Olympus for a D810? :coco:

    Just kidding. I find Bobby's work to be amazing.

  15. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    As far as I know, he used to use a 5DII with L lenses. He bought an A7II - sold it. Bought an A7RII, sold it. Last I heard, he is thinking about getting another A7RII for landscape.

    He is indeed amazing with both a camera and Post Processing.
  16. Gillymaru

    Gillymaru Mu-43 Veteran

    The gear I have is capable of producing excellent photos, unfortunately I am the weak link in the system. If I forget about the gear and look at improving my creative ability the work I produce will be of a much higher standard.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  17. phigmov

    phigmov Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Apr 4, 2010
    Even my E-P1 is AOK by me. Could do with faster AF sometimes but other than that things are fine with my m43 cameras. Also, I'm not sure what magic pixie dust Aperture sprinkles on my old Nikon D700 raw files but I could use some of that on my m43 files when I hit Auto-Enhance.
  18. Sejanus.Aelianus

    Sejanus.Aelianus Mu-43 Regular

    Sep 28, 2015
    The time scanner just popped out the following, dated 18th August 2026...

    "This year's new cameras are really disappointing. No improvement on sensor resolution: c'mon guys, 400 megapixels may be OK for a 'phone but real photographers need more. Worse, we're still stuck with this obsession for eye implant sensors when we should be using independent nano-cameras by now. Even more galling is that there's been no real improvement on 3D motion recording since area scanning was released, most of us have hit the limits of 1600 frames per second on a 120Mp screen. The way I see it, the industry's forgotten the real photographers like us."​
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 3
  19. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    The first m4/3 camera I shot with was the E-P1, then I moved to Panasonic G2, then GF2 and GH2. Compared to those cameras, current Micro 4/3 sensors are amazing in terms of dynamic range. I actually returned to Micro 4/3 after some years with Samsung NX and Fujifilm X, and I think the difference between APS-C and Micro 4/3 today is marginal at best.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Rambling Sam

    Rambling Sam Mu-43 Regular

    May 27, 2016
    Reading, Berkshire, UK
    I suppose the purchasing of my E-1 led me to also realising that what I 'Want' and 'Need', are two distinctly different things. What I wish manufacturers would deliver on, are significant improvements in the reduction of sensor signal noise and increase the camera's dynamic range rather than dish us up with even higher ISO/ASA speeds.

    I suppose the reason they promote improvements in this area, is that it's easier to 'explain' advertising-wise and in a spec sheet, whilst I'm guessing that signal noise and dynamic range statistics, are a lot more difficult to quantify and for a test lab to verify, unless they take the guts out of the camera and actually analyse the output from the sensor, before it's 'processed' by any of the chips that the camera uses and before the EXIF data is applied to it. A lab doing that though, could reveal to competitors more info than they really want them to know.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
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