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How do you use Olympus RAW in LR, what settings etc.

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by swede, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. swede

    swede Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 25, 2014
    I would like to hear opinions on how people use LR and the raw files from Olympus. I have recently bought an E-M10 and have just taken a few shots yet.

    I have the camera set up to Natural with gradation set to normal. In Lr the RAW and jpeg look very close. The Adobe standard profile looks a little desaturated, and the Camera Natural Profile looks a tad to much saturated with deeper shadows.

    Im not color blind, but i am not very sensitive to colors and such. And to be safe i'll have to ask others :cool:

    So, which profile do you use? Why? And do you customize it and save as default?

    One more, does the cameras built in noise reduct apply to raw?
    There are a few settings in the CogE meny : Noise Reduct. and Noise Filter.
     
  2. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Hi,

    iirc Noise Reduction is "Dark Frame Subtraction". I've seen others say that that applies to the RAW file also.

    Noise Filter won't apply to RAW.

    Barry
     
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  3. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I think most tend to start with Camera Natural (either Adobe or the equivalent from Huelight), tweak the colours, and set that as their default. Adobe standard just looks too different to the OOC JPEGs. By default the Olympus profiles go overboard on red/orange saturation, and the greens look a bit yellow, so they're the first things to get fiddled with. I often also try out Camera Portrait and Camera Muted, depending on the image they can also work well.

    What Barry said about Noise Reduction is correct. Dark Frame Subtraction is applied to the RAW.
     
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  4. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    I have an E-M1 and E-M5 and they seem to respond differently to the Lightroom camera profiles so I don't know how the E-M10 fares. When I got my E-M5 the only profile available was Adobe Standard, then I bought the Huelight profiles and started using one of them but eventually went back to Adobe Standard. Then Adobe introduced their additional profiles and I started using Camera Natural and once again I ended up going back to Adobe Standard. With the E-M1 I tried Camera Natural and Adobe Standard and have ended up back with Adobe Standard.

    Adobe Standard tends to look dull compared to the others before any processing gets applied. What counts is the end result and that's why I keep going back to Adobe Standard. The way things look changes as you process the image so the initial preview isn't a good guide to how things are going to look in many ways. One thing you need to be aware of is that the Exposure slider increases saturation as you increase exposure and reduces saturation as you reduce exposure. It's not a big change in saturation but it is there. Big adjustments with the Contrast slider also change things, as do the Highlights and Shadows sliders. I also find a reduction in the Blacks slider often puts a bit of body into the colours. While I'm often underwhelmed with how things look before I do anything with the Adobe Standard profile, I tend to prefer the final result with that profile compared to the other profiles. Of course, some of the adjustments you make might be different if you start with a different camera profile so it may just be a matter of finding the starting point which works best for you.

    Overall I tend to prefer the files from the E-M1 to the E-M5 but not by much. One thing I've noticed recently since I've been going back over my processing approach a bit is that if I get the exposure side of things right in the Basic panel, I end up using a lower Vibrancy setting with the E-M5 and I often don't use Vibrancy at all with the E-M1. I'm using less Clarity as well if I get the overall contrast right with the various exposure controls. I think that should be the same for the E-M10. Try to get everything looking as good as you can with the White Balance, Exposure and Contrast sliders, refine that result with the Highlights/Shadows/Whites/Blacks sliders and you may end up needing to do very little else. It's just a matter of learning to use those first sliders to the fullest.

    If you need tp play with the colours after you've finished with the Basic panel, consider adjusting one or two key colours only in the HSL panel rather than adjusting all colours with the Vibrancy or Saturation sliders in the Basic panel. You have separate control of both Saturation and Luminance in the HSL panel and often what I want to do is something like simply darken a sky rather than boost the colour rendition of the whole image. Using the targeted adjustment tool in the HSL panel is great for things like adjusting skies or grass or even a single colour you want to accentuate for creative effect. Overall I tend to be happy with the colour rendition of both of my cameras, at least with Olympus lenses, using Adobe Standard after I've finished making my tone mapping adjustments and don't do much to colour after that. The reason I said "at least with Olympus lenses" is that I find the colour balance I get with the Panasonic Leica 25mm lens noticeably cooler than what I get with Olympus lenses and I prefer the colours I get from the Olympus lenses. I would want to play with the colours of images from the PL25 up a bit if I were using it but it rarely gets used since I got the Olympus 25mm as well.

    Most of the settings like saturation, contrast, etc in the camera's menu apply to JPEGs only. They set the parameters for the camera to handle the RAW to JPEG conversion the way the various sliders in Lightroom do when you do your conversions there. Noise Reduction is the main exception. As Barry said above, it's dark frame subtraction which means after taking the exposure the camera takes a second exposure for the same time but with the shutter closed so the camera ends up with a totally black frame apart from sensor noise generated during long exposures. That "noise exposure" is then deducted from the original exposure. Noise Reduction is applied to RAW files but it also is only done with long exposures of several seconds or more. You can set that choice to "Auto" and forget about it. The Noise Filter setting only applies to the JPEG conversion process and doesn't affect RAW files at all.
     
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  5. YantaYo

    YantaYo Mu-43 Regular

    92
    Apr 18, 2012
    Colorado
    I have the EM5 and I load the RAW in OV 3 and convert to tiff. Then I load the tiffs into Lightroom.
     
  6. swede

    swede Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 25, 2014
    Thanks for the answer. David, very nice written and informative.

    Is there any general consesus about the colors from the profiles? If any profile should be corrected in the profile settings and then saved as default.
    This i am very interested in. Of course, to many this is subjective.
     
  7. Paul Amyes

    Paul Amyes Mu-43 Regular

    66
    Dec 27, 2011
    Hobart, Tasmania
    My own way of working is to expose to the right and get the flattest RAW file possible. In light room I adjust the sliders for white, highlight, shadow, and blacks so there is no clipping and then I get to work. For snapshots I edit in the desktop version of Snapseed (sadly discontinued). For anything special I use a variety of plugins (AlienSkin Exposure, Topaz Adjust, and the Google apps) occasionally exporting to Photoshop for something that requires special attention. I'm not bothered about trying to make my images look like photos, I always have an idea of what I want to do with a shot. I never shoot jpg.
     
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  8. swede

    swede Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 25, 2014
    I only use the in camera jpeg for viewing on camera directly when shooting. As such, i prefer the Neutral Jpeg setting with everything left at default. It just looks very good.

    In LR, i import raw and my main goal is that the raw match the jpeg from the camera as close as possible, and to have that as a starting point.

    Why? Its because it helps me when shooting and i know what the images will look like when i get home.
     
  9. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 Top Veteran

    617
    Feb 23, 2014
    France
    The way people handle color is very subjective... so I don't think there will be a concensus on this.

    It's quite difficult to compare the rendering of each color profile, because it changes a lot of thing on the image.
    The most obvious are white balance and contrast, for instance.
    (Camera Natural has a lot more contrast than Adobe Standard)

    My default settings for my E-M10 are.
    This is only my starting point.
    - Camera Calibration
    --- color profile: Huelight E-M10 Standard (sometimes I take Adobe Std, or Camera Natural. Sometimes Camera Muted seems nice too)
    - Basic
    --- Shadows: +30
    --- Blacks: -20
    --- Vibrance: +15
    - Tone Curve
    --- Highlights: +20 (I can go higher when used with a negative 'Basic Tab' Highlights setting). I find this to give a nice "punch" to the images
    --- Curve: linear
    - Detail
    --- Noise Reduction Luminance: 10
    - Lens Correction
    --- Remove Chromatic Aberration: checked

    All the rest are default settings.

    If it was possible, I would uncheck "profile correction" (distorsion, vignetting) but unfortunately, it's not possible with micro four thirds bodies.
    (I don't know why).
     
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  10. swede

    swede Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 25, 2014
    Just tried huelight and it looks very nice! I'll have to look at the differences in skintones and such.

    So far, the most obvious difference between all profiles seem to be how they handle red and blue.
     
  11. lightmonkey

    lightmonkey Mu-43 Veteran

    480
    Dec 22, 2013
    Adobe Standard profile 99% of the time.

    Re: color, if i dont like the color, ill start with hue/tint and then the individual color sliders, anyway. And this is separate for each photo, depending on the wb metering and the color content (&prob lens too).... so it makes zero sense to start from some preset because they'll all get tweaked anyway.

    But also im not a colorist or a color fiend so i dont spend an insane amount of time to perfection. Everything in post-processing is eyeballed.

    -Generally apply from 20-60 pts of sharpening, typically less for Detail, masking is 100% depending on picture.
    -Often clarity is ~10 but never higher than 15
    -Typically bump vibrance ~15, saturation 5... but sometimes saturation goes negative too

    everything else depends on composition, metering and content

    spend probably 30-60sec on a photo that i publish
     
  12. David A

    David A Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 30, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    How accurate a profile is depends on how close the response of the sensor in your camera is to the sensor in the camera used to prepare the profile (sensors across different cameras of the same model are pretty uniform but there is a small degree of variation which can have an effect), and also on how accurate your monitor is and there is a much greater range of variation there. Any correction recipe will really only be accurate for one camera/monitor combination and if both your monitor and the monitor used to generate the profile aren't calibrated then that recipe will almost certainly not be accurate for you.

    If you want accuracy there's really only one option. That is to use a calibrated monitor and to generate your own camera profiles.

    If you're doing photography as a hobby, then just choose a profile that gives you results you like. If you're doing this for your own enjoyment what counts is getting results you enjoy. Don't worry about whether some profile or correction is supposedly more accurate than another, just worry about whether you get results you like. If you aren't, then change the profile or tweak the image. The only thing that is "wrong" if you're doing this for enjoyment is getting results you don't enjoy.

    Yes, that is a highly subjective view but photography is my hobby and what counts for me is getting results I like, not whether they're the most accurate results. If I like the photo then I don't care if the colour is not completely accurate. I only have to please myself. Adobe Standard is more than accurate enough for me.

    If you're really concerned about colour accuracy then buy yourself one of the low price SpyderPro or X-Rite calibration devices and calibrate your monitor if you haven't already done so. That will make a bigger difference than anything else.
     
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  13. mcasan

    mcasan Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 26, 2014
    Atlanta
    I use an import preset to do the general purpose boring things like Clarity +5, medium S curve, and let LR do analysis for sharpening and noise reduction. I always keep the native format and never convert to DNG. Once the import is over I cull and decide which images are worth extra effort in LR using lots of different preset or manual adjustments. If needs be I take the image to Perfect Photo Suite, Pixelmator other plugin.
     
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  14. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    Sounds similar to my workflow, except for the 30-60 sec/photo. I am somewhat indecisive and usually spend way too mich time evaluating my options on each photo. And this is how I feel after processing a large batch of photos - :dash2: .

    --Ken
     
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  15. ahinesdesign

    ahinesdesign Mu-43 Veteran

    432
    Dec 6, 2011
    NC, USA
    Aaron
    When editing my E-M5 files in LR I start with the Camera Natural color profile (need to get the Huelight profiles soon), WB as shot, and everything else left to standard defaults.

    Changes to the defaults are typically to taste depending on the image and what I'm using it for, and how close I got the image at the time of exposure. I find that the 16MP m4/3 files (from either manufacturer) allow a lot of latitude in post when the exposure is no where near what you want.

    Although I have no "formula" for developing images, I most often I bring down highlights, raise shadows, add some clarity, and add a bit of sharpening.

    I don't dabble in vintage, cross process, B&W, etc. It is very rare that I add vignette or tweak the individual color channels.

    I have used remove CA and lens correction a lot in the past with certain lenses, but not so much with the 12-40 I use now.

    The filters and adjustment/healing brushes can be invaluable in certain circumstances, but its rare that I need to use them.

    When I shot a G5 I did a lot more work on RAW files, especially WB and color channel adjustments, even with the Huelight profiles installed; I find that I do much less development on Olympus RAWs!
     
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  16. zathras

    zathras Mu-43 Regular

    161
    Jul 13, 2014
    Waikato, New Zealand
    Chris Nielsen
    I think the Adobe Standard profile looks appalling. Just horrific. I have mine set to apply the Vivid profile on import. That makes me happy.
     
  17. Vivalo

    Vivalo Olympus Loser

    941
    Nov 16, 2010
    Finland
    Camera portrait is my import default. Sometimes I use Camera normal for individual photos. Camera portrait brings the shadows up a littlebit and has nicer skintones.
     
  18. swede

    swede Mu-43 Veteran

    277
    Oct 25, 2014
    Thanks everyone for sharing their preferences and opinions.

    Very interestingly the Huelight standard seems to be very nice all in all. Im still on the fence about Camera Neutral, a tad to dark shadows and reds for my taste. Camera Muted and portrait feels more balanced imho.

    To explain myself: I don't want a finished raw product that needs no PP, in that case i use jpeg's. Im just exploring the profiles to which ones or one that will give me the best starting point and preferably require the least editing.

    Please continue posting your thoughts.
     
  19. Aniseedvan

    Aniseedvan Mu-43 Regular

    173
    Sep 25, 2011
    Northants,uk
    Camera portrait a fair amount of the time, but depends on the subject matter - as I find with my DLSR.

    I did a night time shot of the Thames a week or two ago and found that this longer exposure shot fared far better if I pushed it through OV3 first then into LR as a TIFF. I know this is a contentious topic but subjectively for me it reduced some of the sky noise, and I was pleased with the final result.

    Also +1 for the calibrated monitor. I'm still using my Spyder3 which is good enough for my needs (I'm not doing product photography and any shots I get printed at the lab look like on screen), so you may be able to pick one up for cheap off ebay.
     
  20. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 Top Veteran

    617
    Feb 23, 2014
    France
    It also depends on in which conditions the profile were made in the first place, and how they match your shooting conditions.
    I suppose the lens you use will have an impact on color too.
    And the white balance you choose too.

    What's funny is that if you take too different cameras with the Adobe Standard profile, in the same conditions, the results in terms of color will be *very* different.

    That's a problem for me, as I'm happy with the color I get from my E-M10, but I can't get the skin tones right with my Panasonic GM1...