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High ISO shooters' attention please

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by jyc860923, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Untitled.
    my 100% crop comparison screen shot above. left is SOOC

    tried the newly released DxO Optics Pro 9, which comes with the new PRIME denoise, promised to deliver one extra stop usable ISO when using the new denoise method. and from my experience this is true.

    but it's very very very very slow, and I think it probably doesn't take advantage of OPENCL acceleration. on my work computer, it took an hour and a half to process this one. will try on my home pc, which has a modern cpu and gpu

    oops, forgot to mention, this is an ISO 16000 shot from epl5

    updated, see bottom of the page
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Ah, is 9 out already? Will have to check it out.

    DxO Optics yields fantastic results, but it's slow to very slow, particularly compared to something like LightRoom. It is multicore enabled, but even on a hexacore mac pro with a lot of ram (24 gb) it's still a 'walk away and do something else' when batch processing a series of images.
     
  3. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    yeah, apparently with the introduction of 9 they don't even bother lying about the speed, 5 minutes vs 10 sec is what I read somewhere regard to the speed difference between PRIME denoise enabled and not, I guess that's the price to pay for the individually optimised result for each photo.

    UI is a little bit different too and I like the change.

    more importantly, the default sharpening and lens correction isn't as aggressive as in previous versions, I take that as an upgrade too.
     
  4. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Wow, that's an impressive comparison. Double wow that it took an hour! Would love to know what it performs like on a decent desktop PC.
     
  5. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    will post an update

    further reading into the DOP9 help, it's said that it helps getting cleaner shadow area even on low ISO shots if PRIME denoise is selected (a "high" denoise is still there other than the new method for quicker output), but I doubt we should always use the PRIME.
     
  6. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    can you post the whole photo? I'd like to see the overall picture for comparison as well
     
  7. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    so now I've done some testing on my own computer with high ISO raws and DOP9. good news is you have a choice whether to use the PRIME denoise or the much faster opencl accelerated old school denoise and each works well for different purposes, and even the PRIME denoise speed is acceptable on recent platforms, varying widely with the noise amount and pattern of each image.

    and, please click through for large images on flickr to see for your own, the first one is ISO 20000, I bet you'll be as surprised as I am
    10458946323_43f26ce46e_b.
    PA240285_DxO by jyc860923, on Flickr

    I can't believe there's elsewhere for me to get images taken this way to be optimised even as half good as this, not possible without DOP 9

    and this one is ISO 3200
    10458750213_d3824f2e4b_b.
    PA240271_DxO by jyc860923, on Flickr


    EDIT: checked my email and got this reply from dxo team

    Your request #25424 has been updated. Please respond directly to this email or follow the link below :
    http://support.dxo.com/requests/25424
    [TABLE="width: 100%"]
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    [TD="width: 100%"][FONT=&quot]Marion (Support & Assistance) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Oct 24 14:22 (CEST) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Hello Kian, [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] PRIME can only be used with RAW files. PRIME requires considerable processing power and time: it will take several minutes
    to correct a 20 Mpix RAW file, depending on how powerful your computer is. (This is done in the background though).
    So, you may want to think twice about using it for every single picture. There is no sacrifice on details, it is quite the opposite in fact. But the compromise is on the processing time. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot] The technology is based purely on the CPU. It does not take any GPU resources. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Best regards, [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Marion
    DxO Labs Support Team [/FONT]

    [/TD]
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    [TD="width: 100%"][FONT=&quot]Kian [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Oct 24 08:24 (CEST) [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] I've read and noticed the PRIME denoise is very slow, guess it's not practical for daily low ISO shots. My two questions are: [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] 1. is there any gain using PRIME denoise on all shots, or will PRIME sacrifice fine details than ordinary denoise? [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] 2. I don't see any GPU utilisation during the process of which PRIME is used like I used to see in Version 8 when OPENCL is enabled, does PRIME take advantage of modern GPUs? [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] please kindly answer my questions since I see this feature as the key of this upgrade, many thanks. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Kian [/FONT]
    [/TD]
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    • Like Like x 2
  8. tanngrisnir3

    tanngrisnir3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    594
    Oct 18, 2011
    While interesting, when do you seriously find yourself shooting things over, say, 3200 ISO enough to justify using DXO with that time lag as opposed to NIK or Topaz noise reduction plug-ins?

    Seems like something that most photographers just would have much use for on my first impression.
     
  9. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 Veteran

    406
    Aug 31, 2013
    Would you like to mask off sharpening and noise reduction in Photoshop for 10 minutes on a worthwhile shot? I took a shot that required significant DR range yet a fast enough shutter speed to freeze motion ("Fast enough" = 3 second exposure.) It is of a sunset where the lower part of the sky still glows a brilliant orange yet the stars were incredibly bright that night as well as the moon being in the frame. Definitely would make people think the sky is edited but it was a single exposure. A single exposure with significant underexposure in some parts of the frame because of the bright light sources and dark night sky.

    Ignoring difficult shots like that, you can also look through my posts (See my Speedbooster thread) for shots where I push to ISO 6400 to 10k and bring my shots back. Sometimes you just take a shot hoping that you can bring it back because the lighting conditions and the situation make you push the ISO high up. While you are using a f/0.9 lens.
     
  10. tanngrisnir3

    tanngrisnir3 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    594
    Oct 18, 2011
    Sorry, but I don't see how that addresses what I posted.
     
  11. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 Veteran

    406
    Aug 31, 2013
    When you don't feel like spending a half hour to take care of said shot and when you want to walk away. Or when you want it to quickly do all the lens distortion/vig/etc corrections in one quick go.

    I used to use the older versions of DXO (4.x) in the past with my D200 files but I found ACR had become much more competent and capable over the years. Topaz I have tried and while it can do better with details, it tends to leave behind weird artifacts when it tries to preserve detail (Even if set to 0) in what are smooth textured areas with little detail but with significant noise.
     
  12. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    I use Nik fir local editing and big prints, but processing time is cheap enough. I'm not on a deadline to deliver anything and I love DxO's output (using a slightly tweaker personal preset)
     
  13. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Yes that happens with dxo but the new version really has changed that. Even when using the previous version I told myself the colour is worth me choosing dxo over lr, I hated the artifacts though.

    Sent from my M040 using Tapatalk
     
  14. MajorMagee

    MajorMagee Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2011
    Dayton, OH
    I just did a full size 16 MP OOC Jpeg picture in Topaz DeNoise 5 and it took 37 sec to process.
     
  15. pisanoal

    pisanoal Mu-43 Regular

    63
    Oct 29, 2012
    Pretty amazing results. Ive only played with Nik and LR for noise reduction. How much is dxo?
     
  16. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    better hurry, before 20 Nov. it's USD 99

    after that, USD 199
     
  17. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    that sounds fast, but I never had experience with Topaz

    I don't know how good using denoise on SOOC is but, DOP9 seems not only bring back details, but also make up details based on the analysis, hence the results.
     
  18. dancat

    dancat Mu-43 Rookie

    20
    May 19, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  19. RakSiam

    RakSiam Mu-43 Regular

    75
    Oct 11, 2013
    Try Olympus Viewer 3. The high ISO noise removal tool is very impressive.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    thanks, I have the OV3 and will try next time. I still love OV3 but the film simulation in DXO is so fun