GX80 banding issue?

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by RoSca, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    Hi,
    I was a happy owner of a Panasonic GX80, until I bought the (in many ways) great Pana 20 mm 1.7. I had heard about this lens' issues with banding on oly bodies, but I heard this didn't happen on Panasonic bodies.. well, it happened to me yesterday. It's more noticeable at 1600 iso and over, but it definitely happens before that.

    Thing is, in order to rule possible camera fault, I had a look at my previous photos, taken with the 12-32 and.. surprise. The same banded noise pattern can bee seen with other lenses, only less pronounced. The 20 mm actually made me notice something I wasn't seeing before! Here's some examples (sorry about the uninteresting and scruffy subject, it's a junk storage):

    Panasonic 20 mm 1.7 @ 800 iso:
    [​IMG]

    Panasonic 20 mm 1.7 @ 1600 iso:
    [​IMG]

    Panasonic 20 mm 1.7 @ 3200 iso:
    cSDtOT.



    Panasonic 12-32 @ 1600 iso
    [​IMG]

    Panasonic 12-32 @ 3200 iso:
    [​IMG]



    All taken at 0 exposure and straight out of camera.
    Do I have a faulty unit? :( Will Panasonic acknowledge it? Thanks in advance.
     
  2. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    This is a crop, taken with a completely different lens (no brand fisheye) @800 iso.
    Slightly underexposed and fixed in post.
    BCu7cr.
     
  3. Levster

    Levster Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Are these JPEGs straight out of camera? Have you noticed the same thing with RAW files?
     
  4. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    Nope, these are jpeg converted from RAW files without fiddling with any slider (no contrast, no NR, nothing).. here's another shot at 1600 iso, RAW to jpg.

    This shows that banding affects shadows as well as midtones.. there's stripes all over the place.

    12-32 @ 1600 iso
    [​IMG]


    EDIT:
    I've just did a test shot in JPEG and the issue is still there, even though it's less noticeable due to compression.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  5. Zuri

    Zuri Mu-43 Regular

    156
    Apr 20, 2016
    Can I ask what exactly I should be looking at? I also got GX85 and 20/1.7. Would love to test it aswell.
     
  6. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    Sure. To put it simply, it's a "striped" noise pattern that comes out of high iso (usually 1600 and upward, in worse cases 800 and up) and shows itself in multiple areas of the image (usually shadows).

    Here's some examples from the images that I posted:

    HoAodb.

    ADs41F.

    EOqmIM.

    It has started to be so noticeable that I can see it even without pixel peeping, this is what i was greeted with with a resized to fit screen image (<20% of actual size) on lightroom:
    wWkvol.

    I'll let you figure out how it looks at >50% zoom..

    EDIT: Or not, here it is at 100%... there's definitely something wrong here.

    Ba0inq.
     
  7. ibd

    ibd Mu-43 Rookie

    16
    Jun 5, 2016
    Definitely looks like a faulty unit. I have the exact combination that you have, and I haven't noticed any patterns like that. I shoot raw. Show Panasonic the images and they should replace it!
     
  8. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Looks like a faulty sensor :(
     
  9. Zuri

    Zuri Mu-43 Regular

    156
    Apr 20, 2016
    I don't have a banding like that, but I do very notice some strange color distortion of some sort. I'm attaching a photo taken on ISO 3200, but even at 200, there is little of that too.

    Look at the photo, there are "green" washed spots that shouldn't be there.

    http://i.cubeupload.com/NacG3T.png
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Sarky Git

    Sarky Git Mu-43 Rookie

    17
    Oct 6, 2016
    I suspect this will happen on the G80 as well, the sensor's the same as the GX80 - supposedly the MN34230 with no AA filter.
    Does anyone have a G80 and the 20mm F1.7 lens who can test it?

    Actually this makes me wonder if the G*80 twins may be using the Sony IMX109 instead. The line from DPReview was "the same field sequential EVF as the GX7 (although it doesn't tilt), and what is presumably the same sensor (sans AA filter)."
    Testing long exposure noise would give the answer.

    It's either the IMX109 or removing the AA filter from the MN34230 causes the same problem.

    Panasonic did say (or at least imply) that the G80 uses the G7's sensor, so I suspect it's the AA filter. I can't imagine the GX80 would have a different sensor to the G80.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  11. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    A common theory about the banding with the 20mm is that it is caused by vibration in the aperture blades when stopping down; if so, long exposures would mask it as the oscillation should stop fairly quickly.
     
  12. bigboysdad

    bigboysdad Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 25, 2013
    Sydney/ London
    I started a thread on this forum specifically asking about the GX85 and Panasonic 20mm and banding, I guess I have my answer!
     
  13. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    I see some of you are referencing articles about the 20 mm specifically.. I have read them and yes, the banding is more pronounced with that lens and easier to get (at any aperture, too, so stopping down shouldn't have any relevance), but on my camera this happens with every other lens as well.

    The photo with the corridor of rum casks was taken with the kit 12-32 mm, and the photo at the mirror was taken an all manual fisheye (so no electronics meddled with the sensor, which is what some speculate the issue is with the 20 mm), so whatever it is, it's on the sensor..

    Looks like I'm going to have to get in touch with Panasonic, then. Bummer..
     
    • Wow Wow x 1
  14. RoSca

    RoSca Mu-43 Rookie

    13
    Oct 14, 2016
    This should be chroma noise. It's quite normal to have it at very high ISO ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Zuri

    Zuri Mu-43 Regular

    156
    Apr 20, 2016
    Well I see it at ISO 200 aswell. Not as pronounced as in higher ISOs but it's still there... is this normal?
     
  16. Egregius V

    Egregius V Mu-43 Regular

    127
    Jun 14, 2015
    Massachusetts, USA
    Rev. Gregory Vozzo
    Yes, this seems normal to me. If you go to the dpreview web site and select the studio scene comparison tool in the Reviews section, you can bring up various cameras and look at JPEG and RAW images taken at various ISO settings. Select the low-light scene for comparison and look at the grayscale palette (top and center). There is some noise at all settings. You'll also see things like sharpening artifacts and color imperfections with the JPEG images. All of this can be adjusted in-camera to a certain extent or using separate RAW conversion software. Does this help explain what you're seeing?
     
  17. Egregius V

    Egregius V Mu-43 Regular

    127
    Jun 14, 2015
    Massachusetts, USA
    Rev. Gregory Vozzo
    I sure hope this is just a problem with your camera that can be fixed. I tested my GX85 for this kind of banding as soon as I bought it and didn't see any. Please let us know how things turn out!
     
  18. Zuri

    Zuri Mu-43 Regular

    156
    Apr 20, 2016
    Do you know how this can be controlled within the camera? Matter the settings I always see thia chromas. Any suggesting settings maybe?

    I'm gonna also try DxO optics pro to reduce these noises ..
     
  19. Egregius V

    Egregius V Mu-43 Regular

    127
    Jun 14, 2015
    Massachusetts, USA
    Rev. Gregory Vozzo
    More information about your photos would be helpful before offering any suggestions. Were the noisy shots taken indoors, outside, or both? With a tripod or not? What range of shutter speeds are you using? Are you looking at JPEG, RAW, or both? Are you underexposing your shots or are they well-exposed from the beginning?