GX8 vs Sony A7rii - two pictures of the same object

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by MDR Foto, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. MDR Foto

    MDR Foto Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mark Rigsby
    So, I have a porject to do for a local toy store, they gave me some skylander figures to shoot for them so I used both the GX8 and the A7rii to see how good the GX8 is. Used the GX8 and the Lumix 12-35G 1/100 @ f7.1. The Sony a7rii iused the FE 90m macro f2.8 1.125 @ f/5.6

    Not exactly the same but the GX8 really kept up well with the A7rii....These are both SOOC with the only processing being the covnersion from raw to jpeg

    i-SdSpHvm-X3. i-rLpcWWQ-X3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
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  2. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    An interesting comparison. It sounds like you don't own the GX8, simply borrowed it to see how it did.

    The lenses used were quite different, with the 12-35 yielding a FF equivalent of f/14 in terms of DoF, compared to the f/5.6 used on the A7RII. By using the 12-35 wide open, you would have achieved similar DoF (though the macro on the A7RII would likely yield more shallow DoF).

    I think a really interesting comparison would have been if the PL45 f/2.8 macro would have been used, that way you would have had a 90mm f/5.6 lens (in terms of DoF) on the GX8, and you would have had a more "apples to apples" comparison. Again, I realize you were simply working with what you had.

    Having said that, the second image looks better to me without a doubt, and that's just viewing it on the screen at whatever size you uploaded it at. I think the DoF really helps with softening the background, and for some reason the bottom image appears to have a brighter exposure.


    Thanks for sharing!
     
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  3. MDR Foto

    MDR Foto Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mark Rigsby
    No, I do own the GX8 (though I've onyl ahd it a couple of weeks), I love the camera, I was surprised at how good it was given the differences in glass and resolution. I don't have the 42.5, I only have zooms for it. But, the GX8 focsues better in low light than any camera I've ever had, includingthe low light monster A7s. As a professional, I wouldn't hesitate to use the GX8 in anything that I do. Right now, the GX8 is my zoom camera becasue I like the native fast glass over the native slower glass on the Sony series. While I do miss the dof, the ability to shoot low light without having focus falloff is fantastic.

    By the way, this thread is in praise at how well that combination of glass and body did. Amazing little camera
     
  4. MDR Foto

    MDR Foto Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mark Rigsby
    I thought I put this thread in the Panasonic forum.....Geez, I'm a forum Newbie
     
  5. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Thanks for the comparo, you should have used F2.8
     
  6. JoFT

    JoFT Mu-43 Veteran

    360
    Nov 11, 2014
    Stuttgart
    Johannes
    Sorry to say: In the photo the clear winner is the FF. But that is mostly based on the higher dynamic range of FF... I have seen a similar effect when I mixed a 5D3 photo in my comparison of the G7 to the G6...

    p1301942659-6.

    The order is

    5D3 G7
    G6 GM5

    The color rendering in the mudguards of the blue car are very interesting.....
     
  7. kevinparis

    kevinparis Cantankerous Scotsman

    Feb 12, 2010
    Gent, Belgium
    completely pointless comparison.. for that great majority of us, any micro 4/3 cameras is probably a better camera than we are a photographer...

    for those that actually care about or need the extra performance, then obviously the camera that costs 3 times the amount can, in the right hands offer a superior result

    but unless you are actually deep into your understanding of your actual photographic needs and have mastered the art and techniques of photography a 50 mega pixel FF camera wont make you a better photographer

    K
     
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  8. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    There looks to be a lot of NR on the m4/3 shots. Did you do any PP after RAW conversion for these? I find that this an extremely big factor. My GM5 and E-M1 for instance require quite different PP to even get to the same starting point, and Adobe defaults definitely don't give the best results. When I took this screen shot into PS I could basically equalise everything apart from the noise factor across all four pictures... the Canon most notably has deeper blacks and lighter whites - this is not extra DR, as you can just do this in PP...
     
  9. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    First picture is darker, about 1/5 stop. The camera angle is also different: in the Sony shot the head has a mostly white background and the grey/white line is level. This also changes the highlights, check the green eye for example. Different equiv. focal length, 60 vs 90.

    These things a alone can make a ton of difference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion

    This is also an easy shot with low dynamic range, heavily scaled down. I see no reason to prefer one over the other (I prefer the GX8 BTW). I think an LX-5 would give similar result here.
     
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  10. JoFT

    JoFT Mu-43 Veteran

    360
    Nov 11, 2014
    Stuttgart
    Johannes
    You are right, there is more noise. The photos were taken as jpg. There was no RAW converter for the G70 when I made this comparison - which I had to buy in Germany. If you have a G70 and you are shooting RAW than you have to take f. i. "Exif Editor" to change the Camera name to G7 and than it works....
     
  11. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    Ah ok, going back and reading your OP, I see that you do indeed own both cameras (I read this late last night, so I obviously wasn't "all there).

    The lens I'm referring to isn't the 42.5 Nocticron, but rather the PL 45mm f/2.8 macro lens. I only mentioned it because it would give you a 90mm eqv FoV, and with an aperture of f/2.8 on m43, it would give you the same DoF as the Sony G 90mm macro you used on the A7RII @ f/5.6.

    As others have said, there are some differences between the shots, but this was never intended to be a "studio comparison", and it shows us how the two cameras perform with some excellent glass in front of the sensor.

    The GX8 shot looks a bit under exposed, and I've seen this across all of the Panasonic cameras I own. I tend to dial in about +2/3 of "over exposure" when using my Panasonic cameras, and then pull back the highlights as needed in post. Another tool you should have at your disposal on the GX8 is the ability to adjust the highlight/shadow curve in camera. That too can be used to adjust the image output from the camera.
     
  12. MDR Foto

    MDR Foto Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mark Rigsby
    Nothing was done to either shot. Both, as stated in the original post, are straight out of camera. I was shooting this for a client and thought, what the heck lets see how the Panny does. I never expected it to be anywhere close to the Sony, but it was a lot closer than I thought.

    Kevin Paris,

    As far as being pointless, nothing is pointless when you get to shoot for a living and I enjoy doing this to see the difference But , with that said, everything I shoot can be used in some way. Either in a blog post, a gear review or for a client. 95% of my clients can't tell the difference between the images a 20 mp M43 camera produces and that of a 42mp Sony. It's about how that particular camera an help my businesess succeed. it's about ROI and the Panny provides a very good ROI based on the results I've gotten so far.

    As far as caring and needing the extra performance. I do a lot of advertising and other types of coposites and the extra MP and DN tha the sony offers gives me more information to play with and maniuplate. I know exactly what my needs are and how to use them. But I do appreciate your point of view.

    For the record, this wasn't an actual comparison, it was a fun little exercize tob see how the panny did. I was completlely blown away by the results Will it be my product/advertising camera, probably not. But it will be a very usefull addition to my stable. Before moiving to mirrorless, I lugged around a 1DX, 5D III and ginormous lenses. These have been a blessing when it comes to how I shoot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
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  13. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Thanks, MDR Foto. I think sometimes people get a little bit defensive about their gear choices, especially when it's a new poster and another system comes up, so don't take the comments personally.

    As far as the two pictures, I think the main difference appears to me to be that the GX8 focus is slightly back-focused. It has much deeper DoF, but because of that depth of field, it's harder to tell that the the focus point isn't in exactly the same spot. The is bitingly sharp detail on the rock dude's upper jaw (the nearest point to the camera) on the Sony, which pops because it's in contrast to the rest of the image. With the GX8, that area seems to be slightly less in focus, and overall there is slightly less contrast. Not to mention that f7.1 on the GX8 is already somewhat into diffraction territory with the 20MP sensor, which will start to reduce ultimate sharpness above f6.3 or so (assuming the lens isn't optically limited below that aperture).

    I do think the A7r II looks hands-down better here, but I also think that with a slight adjustment in the settings chosen and some very quick PP, it would be easy to achieve the same result with the GX8.

    If you don't have a huge amount of experience with M4/3, this is actually a good point to remember - unless you really need very deep depth of field (landscapes with details perfectly sharp corner-to-corner) you will tend to get the sharpest images if you keep your lenses at f5.6 or below. This is a big mental adjustment from shooting with FF! Obviously this isn't the case with M4/3's slow zooms (many of which are best shot at f7.1-f8, especially the telephotos), but since it seems like you have the f2.8 zooms, you can happily shoot them at f2.8-f4. That's where they are the sharpest.

    The highest-end M4/3 primes like the Nocticron 42.5/1.2 and the Olympus 75/1.8 can actually see peak sharpness at f2.8 or even below, because they are nearly flawless optically and so diffraction limiting is the primary factor that will degrade their performance when stopping down...
     
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  14. RDM

    RDM Mu-43 All-Pro

    Wow! Both look good . I can't tell wich is wich, and do not see a quality difference.
    But the one taken with the A7 II is the better one. I know that because everyone always says that FF sensors produce better photos.
     
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  15. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    Larry
    Especially the 5DIII with more dynamic range!
     
  16. RDM

    RDM Mu-43 All-Pro

    lol . . Exactly
     
  17. MDR Foto

    MDR Foto Mu-43 Rookie

    15
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mark Rigsby
    Thank you, I didn't know that. This is my first foray into M43. So far I'm very impressed with the camera and lenses
     
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  18. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    It doesn't seem like you're shooting the A7R II where it would make a big difference. I would rather have an A7R II shooting something like studio fashion photography, but then I'd rather have a GX8 to travel the world and photographic far off locales! ;)
     
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  19. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Northumberland
    Closeups of small toys in controlled conditions are not where you would see any difference between modern m4/3rds and modern 35mm-sensored cameras,
    you could achieve equal (for this purpose) results using cameras with MUCH smaller sensors and it might even be beneficial.
    The best camera for this job is the one you've spent years using in the same conditions, which rules out both of these contenders.
    Hey, don't get me wrong : photos of Skylanders toys are nice, just ask my boy.
     
  20. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    The m43 shot looks extremely flat! So telecentric that it hurts :)
     
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