Greetings

Discussion in 'Welcomes and introductions' started by sunny16, Jul 10, 2015.

  1. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    Greetings,

    MFT newbie here. I just ordered an Olympus E-M10 with the 14-42mm kit lens. I am a long time Pentaxian who started out with a Pentax MX film SLR and currently use a Pentax K5 DSLR. I mainly shoot family and friend portraits in available light. An Olympus XZ-1 is my digicam backup when I am too lazy to lug the DSLR.

    The compactness and interchangeable lens features of the MFT gear have intrigued me for a while so I finally decided to take the plunge. I already have my eye on the Oly 25/1.8 as the next purchase (it's an addiction).

    Excited about trying out the new camera.
     
  2. Carbonman

    Carbonman Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 10, 2014
    Vancouver BC
    Graham
    Enjoy your new camera and welcome to mu-43.com. I have an E-M10 myself and find it easy to use and get great results.
    The 14-42 kit lens gets unfairly maligned but is actually quite decent. It's especially handy when you want to use the pop up E-M10 flash. Fat lenses like the 12-40 and 75 protrude into the flash light path, but the kit lens and a lot of the other compact lenses work well with the flash.
     
  3. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Welcome to the forum...love your username.

    Not to steer you away from the Oly 25mm, but like Graham says, you should at least consider just using the very capable kit lens for a bit while you familiarize yourself with the new camera.

    I'm curious as to whether you see the E-M10 as a replacement to your K5 or XZ-1 or just a third option that slots in between those two.
     
  4. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    Thanks for the warm welcome and tips. Yes I want to replace both the K5 and XZ-1 if can I learn to use the E-M10 well enough. The K5 is more camera than I need. Another point attracting me to MFT is that a 25mm lens gives a 50mm perspective without the cropped FOV. The 50/1.4 lens is pretty much bolted to the camera.

    - Also in the recently sunny PNW.
     
  5. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    I'm not sure I follow you here. If I recall, the K5 has an APS-sized sensor, which means the 50mm lens would be a 75mm "full-frame" equivalent FOV.

    If you are looking for a similar FOV with the E-M10, you'd want a 35-40mm lens, since Micro Four Thirds has a 2x crop factor. Unfortunately, there's really no native lens that fits that bill precisely. Closest would be the Sigma or Panasonic 30mm or the Panasonic 42.5s or the Olympus 45/1.8.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  6. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    So I understand that 50mm on APSC gives a 50mm perspective but 75mm FOV, so there is some loss of FOV.

    25mm on MFT should give a 50mm perspective and 50mm FOV so no loss of FOV.
     
  7. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Huh?
    "Perspective" and FoV either mean the same thing or they don't.
    Their meaning cannot change just because the sensor changed.

    Barry
     
  8. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    Probably getting too technical for my first thread here. :)

    APSC is special since it uses lenses with same lens-sensor distance as a different format (35mm) but a smaller sensor. The image is cropped but perspective is not altered so some useful area of the image is throw away.
    MFT uses lenses matched to its focal length so there is no cropping and perspective matches FOV. The full width of image projected by the lens is captured by the sensor.

    There is a bit of debate on this topic online. https://www.google.com/search?q=perspective vs fov
     
  9. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Hi,

    The lens-sensor distance is irrelevant.

    What WILL change perspective (and FoV) is that your FEET will likely move away from the subject because the FoV is smaller on the smaller sensor.
    This occurs when comparing ANY crop format to 35mm/FF.

    More or less true, but saying "There is no cropping" is not accurate if you're comparing to FF... the available image is cropped when photographing it on a smaller sensor.

    Barry
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Itchybiscuit

    Itchybiscuit Photon Mangler

    512
    Dec 10, 2013
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ivor
    Hi and welcome. It's always exciting when a change of kit is in the wind.

    I learn something new almost every day on this site. It's a great resource. :thumbup:
     
  11. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    Thanks @Itchybiscuit@Itchybiscuit looking forward to learning too.

    Hi @barry13@barry13, that disagrees with how I understand it. I could be wrong though.

    Pretty sure there is no image cropping in MFT. This should be easy to test and I'd be happy to try it once I get the new camera.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    I agree with Barry, lens to sensor distance is totally irrelevant except in how it affects the overall size of the system. If there is some sort of "perspective" difference then it is miniscule and can safely be ignored. Crop is crop is crop. APS-C crops a full frame lens just like M4/3 would crop it it you stuck it on an adapter. There's no magic in the crop. But as was mentioned, distance from subject is of course quite important.

    Get the Oly 25mm, it's an extraordinary lens.
     
  13. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Also, how are you planning to test whether there's cropping? You can't adapt backwards from native M4/3 to full frame...
     
  14. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    I agree with @barry13@barry13 and @agentlossing@agentlossing that lens to sensor distance is absolutely immaterial to the computation of field of view or "effective" (i.e. 35mm equivalent) focal length.

    The term "crop" in relation to :mu43: (as well as APS) sensors doesn't necessarily imply that the image projected by the lens is necessarily "cropped" with these cameras, but rather simply that the sensor employed to capture the images is smaller, or "cropped", in comparison to a so called "full frame" sensor. The smaller sensor that the lens needs to cover allows the lenses themselves to be more diminutive compared to those for full frame cameras.

    Since the horizontal and vertical measurements of the :mu43: sensor are (roughly) half that of full frame, they are said to have a "crop factor" of 2x. This means that a 50mm lens on a full frame camera will offer roughly the same FOV as a 25mm lens on a :mu43: camera. It can be said that this 25mm :mu43: lens offers a "50mm equivalent focal length". On a camera with an APS sensor (which have roughly 1.5x crop factor) a 35mm lens would be the rough equivalent in terms of FOV.

    This entire topic can be very confusing, particularly if we also start injecting depth of field into the discussion. I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    Crop factor and focal length multiplier are not the same. APSC crops. MFT does not. This was my original contention in #4. Not sure how there can be disagreement about this.

    Okay next - focal length absolutely affects perspective in any practical situation. I clearly have the minority opinion so not looking to convince anyone and this was not even my original point. ;-)

    The E-M10 kit is here and what a beautiful compact camera. Looking forward to some shots soon.

    Thanks for all the welcome posts though!
     
  16. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    I have NO idea what you mean here. But all this "equivalency" and "cropping" talk is really immaterial. The only reason I even brought it up is because you mentioned a Pentax lens you liked and I wanted you to be able to find a similar lens in the :mu43: system.

    The important thing is that you're able to get the sorts of shots you want with your new E-M10. Hopefully when you've got some images you're proud of you'll share them with us.
     
  17. sunny16

    sunny16 New to Mu-43

    7
    Jul 10, 2015
    No offense intended or taken @DeeJayK@DeeJayK . I thought it was a harmless discussion and appreciated the help.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1